• Politics

    From Avon@21:1/101 to All on Saturday, March 05, 2022 14:55:00
    Golly what a business eh, this politics stuff :)

    I recall I asked we didn't cover that and religion because at the time it seemed some echomail areas were getting taken over by heated arguments between folks, often about USA politics and who was left and who was right and which leader was good or not etc. etc.

    For me I'm not against political discussion per say but I am against any hurtful or unkind or extreme discord that can unfortunately arise when something in that political or religious space comes up and people feel they must defend their point of view tooth and nail but do so in a way that descends into acrimony.

    So I'm not against political chatter per say but against the poor behaviour that seems to accompany it when some go off the deep end trying to convey their point of view.

    I wonder if an echo that had a geo-political or just political focus to it would be a starter? If it was set up it could be a place for discussions about global politics and peoples thoughts, fears, hopes etc. the come with it.

    I enjoy news and I do follow local and national political events here in New Zealand. I am also following closely what is happing in Europe (with dismay and sadness) and keeping an eye on the South Pacific region (closer to my country) with interest too.

    So for me to chat about any of that stuff I'd likely need to adjust things in fsx to create such an echo for that kind of chatter and focus.

    But it occurs to me that where the bulk of any such chatter has landed in the past (as I mentioned earlier) was in the USA political space. And I guess that's also understandable as many nodes in fsx are USA based and it's been a busy/changable time in USA politics for some years now with several high profile people generating engagement in folks for and against their espoused views.

    Another thought would be to also create a USA specific politics echo but the it seems a bit unfair to the rest of the globe :) And I do worry it could turn sour in content posted if people forgot about the values of the network and started chucking metaphorical barbs at each other :( Never good nor fun, nor kind.

    These are some of my thoughts :) Not in any order nor intent to act in any time soon (given my travels)

    But if we could find a way to continue to agree to conduct ourselves in a way that is civil if such an echo(s) were created I'd be open to looking at it / giving it a try.

    I will x-post this to FSX_NET ... can you please reply to that echo as this is essentially a network admin etc. topic so let's plonk that chatter there.

    Best, Paul

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Warpslide@21:3/110 to Avon on Friday, March 04, 2022 21:09:49
    On 05 Mar 2022, Avon said the following...

    I wonder if an echo that had a geo-political or just political focus to
    it would be a starter?

    I personally wouldn't carry any echos related to religion or politics. Not to dissuade those who would want to carry such echos, I just prefer to stay away from such topics.

    Any time I poke my head into one to "see what I'm missing" I'm reminded of the scene from Monty Python:

    "On second thought, lets not go to Camelot. 'tis a silly place."


    Jay

    ... An independent is a guy who wants to take the politics out of politics.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/03/04 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Northern Realms (21:3/110)
  • From Utopian Galt@21:4/108 to Andre Robitaille on Friday, March 04, 2022 19:59:40
    BY: Andre Robitaille(21:3/117)


    The problem with that concept is that the people who would spend time in that echo have an identity politics problem... They can't bringing politics, and usually being nasty to each other, into ever single discussion.
    Politics can get personal and very petty like World Wrestling Entertainment. You can see it on the Fidonet politics echos. I think many of us are trying to restrain ourselves when we get into the politics posts when major world events happen.


    --- WWIV 5.5.1.3261
    * Origin: inland utopia * california * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (21:4/108)
  • From Andre Robitaille@21:3/117 to Avon on Friday, March 04, 2022 20:37:09
    I wonder if an echo that had a geo-political or just political focus to it would be a starter? If it was set up it could be a place for discussions about global politics and peoples thoughts, fears, hopes etc. the come with it.

    The problem with that concept is that the people who would spend time in that echo have an identity politics problem... They can't bringing politics, and usually being nasty to each other, into ever single discussion.

    I mean, if the rule was strict in every other echo except the politics echo, maybe it would work? I dunno.


    But it occurs to me that where the bulk of any such chatter has landed in the past (as I mentioned earlier) was in the USA political space.

    That ship sailed a few years ago. Seems like everyone I talked to in Europe wanted to comment on US politics. I mean, come on... I'm an American. I already don't care what other parts of the world think about anything, much less what they think about my country. :-D

    But now it's not just politics. It's social. And what seemed like heated arguements before has now turned into every topic being an existential crisis.

    But if we could find a way to continue to agree to conduct ourselves in a way that is civil if such an echo(s) were created I'd be open to looking at it / giving it a try.

    I think the cons wildly outweigh the pros.


    - Andre
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Radio Mentor BBS - bbs.radiomentor.org (21:3/117)
  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to Avon on Saturday, March 05, 2022 10:58:43
    Avon wrote to All <=-

    For me I'm not against political discussion per say but I am against
    any hurtful or unkind or extreme discord that can unfortunately arise
    when something in that political or religious space comes up and people feel they must defend their point of view tooth and nail but do so in a way that descends into acrimony.

    I have found that people defend in that manner when the person they are defending against came on in an attacking manner, i.e. it is two-sided.
    Not always, but often so.

    I wonder if an echo that had a geo-political or just political focus to
    it would be a starter? If it was set up it could be a place for discussions about global politics and peoples thoughts, fears, hopes
    etc. the come with it.

    That sounds nice, on the surface, but with how the topology of FTN networks (and QWK, too), it is likely to get out of hand before you have time do say
    or do anything about it.

    I enjoy news and I do follow local and national political events here
    in New Zealand. I am also following closely what is happing in Europe (with dismay and sadness) and keeping an eye on the South Pacific
    region (closer to my country) with interest too.

    So for me to chat about any of that stuff I'd likely need to adjust
    things in fsx to create such an echo for that kind of chatter and
    focus.

    Current events discussions would be nice, but see above... they can go off
    the rails, too.

    But it occurs to me that where the bulk of any such chatter has landed
    in the past (as I mentioned earlier) was in the USA political space.
    And I guess that's also understandable as many nodes in fsx are USA
    based and it's been a busy/changable time in USA politics for some
    years now with several high profile people generating engagement in
    folks for and against their espoused views.

    It is often persons outside the US who heat those US political
    conversations up.

    Another thought would be to also create a USA specific politics echo
    but the it seems a bit unfair to the rest of the globe :) And I do
    worry it could turn sour in content posted if people forgot about the values of the network and started chucking metaphorical barbs at each other :( Never good nor fun, nor kind.

    I suspect any political discussion would soon be turned sour.

    The discussion about Ukraine may turn out to be an exception because most
    of us are probably more of the same mind on it... we are worried about the people involved and cannot see any good coming out of it.

    But if we could find a way to continue to agree to conduct ourselves in
    a way that is civil if such an echo(s) were created I'd be open to
    looking at it / giving it a try.

    Moderating a Politics echo in another network, I would not hold out much
    hope for that. I am afraid it would turn out like past political dicussion
    in FSX_GEN here... what starts as a mostly civil discussion of something
    would quickly turn to name calling and f-bombing.

    There are actually people I interact with in other echos that I would never suspect of such behavior that will drop into the politics echos for the specific purpose of trolling, causing trouble, and other such behaviors
    that a bored person might participate in.

    Unless you are willing to hold that one echo to a much lower standard that
    the rest of the network, I still think the best alternative is to direct
    people to other networks where such behavior is less frowned upon.


    ... DALETECH - for all your home security needs!
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    * Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:7636/SSH:2122 (21:4/134)
  • From Andre Robitaille@21:3/117 to Blue White on Saturday, March 05, 2022 12:29:40
    I have found that people defend in that manner when the person they are defending against came on in an attacking manner, i.e. it is two-sided. Not always, but often so.

    This is the only point that I disagree on. Just logitally it doesn't hold water becauwe someone has to start it.

    Unless you are willing to hold that one echo to a much lower standard that the rest of the network, I still think the best alternative is to direct people to other networks where such behavior is less frowned upon.

    But otherwise I couldn't agree more with all your points, and especially your conclusion above.


    - Andre
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Radio Mentor BBS - bbs.radiomentor.org (21:3/117)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Andre Robitaille on Sunday, March 06, 2022 13:08:43
    The problem with that concept is that the people who would spend time in that echo have an identity politics problem... They can't bringing politics, and usually being nasty to each other, into ever single discussion.

    I mean, if the rule was strict in every other echo except the politics echo, maybe it would work? I dunno.


    That ship sailed a few years ago. Seems like everyone I talked to in Europe wanted to comment on US politics. I mean, come on... I'm an American. I already don't care what other parts of the world think about anything, much less what they think about my country. :-D

    But now it's not just politics. It's social. And what seemed like heated arguements before has now turned into every topic being an existential crisis.

    That is what I observe in Australia. In an Australian online newspaper, people who comment, still still bring up Trump all the time. Some people just want any excuse to push their ideology, to blame everything on Trump, or Biden.

    I have seen the same elsewhere. American politics is highly ideological, and it turns into an ideological, almost religious war. People can't discuss politics without passing value judgements on the person.

    While I would like a politics echo, there are people who will turn any objective sober analysis into something about Trump or Biden.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Utopian Galt@21:4/108 to Boraxman on Saturday, March 05, 2022 16:29:52
    BY: boraxman(21:1/101)


    While I would like a politics echo, there are people who will turn any objective sober analysis into something about Trump or Biden.
    Im objective. Id blame Biden and Putin at the same time.


    --- WWIV 5.5.1.3261
    * Origin: inland utopia * california * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (21:4/108)
  • From fang-castro@21:3/112 to Avon on Saturday, March 05, 2022 18:21:38
    I wonder if an echo that had a geo-political or just political focus to
    it would be a starter? If it was set up it could be a place for

    yes please. have you seen DOVEnet? every base is this bullshit.

    i login to BBSs and read echomail to have some time away from all this crap.

    |04--- |08Three words that describe my work ethic: Lazy.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: > seek Slack at Nightvault.fsxnet.nz:2323 < (21:3/112)
  • From fang-castro@21:3/112 to Warpslide on Saturday, March 05, 2022 18:22:50
    On 04 Mar 2022, Warpslide said the following...

    "On second thought, lets not go to Camelot. 'tis a silly place."

    lol, yes!

    |04--- |08Three words that describe my work ethic: Lazy.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: > seek Slack at Nightvault.fsxnet.nz:2323 < (21:3/112)
  • From DustCouncil@21:1/227 to Avon on Sunday, March 06, 2022 10:21:48
    If we could measure all of the words and energy spent online advocating for one political point or another, and somehow quantify it: blood pressure points, characters or words typed, or number of time spent doing this, and measured it against a metric of how many people changed their minds because of a better argument, it'd be interesting to see that ratio.

    Why I don't like politics is arguing politically is like a psychological tic for people. In the best case, you argue in a kind of Socratic way with truth or logic being the goal.

    But it never is. It's a war of reality tunnels, frames, and narratives, driven by poorly-informed, heavily-biased, highly summarized, and non-nuanced news sources which exist across the political spectrum from one side to the other.

    Ultimately the argument becomes about a person's sense of reality: the map of the world and how it works in their heads, and not the specific issue or topic. When someone steps up to argue, it is a threat to the person's very grasp of reality itself.

    This is why I wonder what the purpose is. It is an excercise in weaponized cognitive dissonance, bumper-sticker-like sloganeering, and, especially the Dunning-Kruger effect on full display.

    In essence, people don't really know what they're talking about, and don't much care. The motivation is something other than reality as it is.

    Not that anyone uses my board, but I'd carry (and currently carry) such echoes but don't subscribe to them. It is hard to understand the benefit. It creates discord and even hatred between people, without ever really being illuminating on any level. If discord and anger is the price, what's the countervailing benefit?

    I don't see one.

    I am surprised that so many people are so certain of so many things. I've only become more doubtful and less committed as I get older as the complexity and apparent contradictions of the world we live in make it obvious no one really knows what's going on. Cheap platitudes about caring about this concept or value or this group of people are understandable, but the political policies or ideologies people recommend to ameliorate what they perceive to be injustices are often simplistic or destructive (I am reminded of the Dead Kennedy's sarcastic "Kill the Poor" for some reason.)

    I expect 18 year olds to have not learned this yet. It is surprising fully-grown adults are so so sure about everything and seem to truly believe they have the solutions to problems that have vexed humankind for millennia.

    I guess people have a lot more time to read than I do, because the last I looked there are experts with PhDs and decades of experience studying exclusively, say, the military affairs of a single country and are tentative when they express opinions on these things even near the ends of their career.

    People on the Internet, in bars -- a whole other matter. They have it all figured out. They will state absolutes in declarative sentences without any trace of self-conscious or irony. Certain Fidonet echoes are populated with people like this.

    Must be a whole different way of looking at the world.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Shipwrecks & Shibboleths [San Francisco, CA - USA] (21:1/227)
  • From Andre Robitaille@21:3/117 to DustCouncil on Sunday, March 06, 2022 05:28:48
    TL;DR

    Do you think there should be a separate politics message area or not?


    - Andre
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Radio Mentor BBS - bbs.radiomentor.org (21:3/117)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Avon on Sunday, March 06, 2022 07:58:29
    On 05 Mar 22 14:55:00, Avon said the following to All:

    For me I'm not against political discussion per say but I am against any hurtful or unkind or extreme discord that can unfortunately arise when something in that political or religious space comes up and people feel they must defend their point of view tooth and nail but do so in a way that descends into acrimony.

    Things are only offensive if that person allows themselves to be offended. No written words have ever offended me, ever. Its only words; written in some silly message in some silly net only a fraction of the world uses anymore.

    It really amazes me that of all the Linux or technically-competent people you have here, nobody thinks to use a twit-filter to trash the messages from senders they don't want on their system. I'm running old MS-DOS stuff that allows me to do this. And my stuff also has something called a Next key, because I'm a mature adult who doesn't need a moderator or babysitter. I can decide to involve myself in a message thread, or not.

    The majority of that hurtful/extreme discord you mention, are a couple of non Americans trolling about American politics for no reason other than thats
    their definition of fun for them. I doubt you'll find anyone supporting Putin and if you did, its your net, you can suggest that they go elsewhere for fun.

    Maybe a suggestion that might work here would be, "Don't troll" or "Don't be a dick", or better, "Don't annoy others and don't allow yourself to be annoyed" as it is worded in the policy of another net.

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Andre Robitaille@21:3/117 to Atreyu on Sunday, March 06, 2022 09:12:01
    Things are only offensive if that person allows themselves to be offended.

    I've seen people say this before, and it's not at all true. It's a mangling of that you can only be hurt by someone if you allow yourself to be.

    Regardless, that's not the issue here. This is a public-ish forum, and there are other people who have to witness the disussion. There are social norms in society, and we have some people in the BBS community that choose to be antisocial to get a reaction out of everyone so that they can feel powerful.


    - Andre
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Radio Mentor BBS - bbs.radiomentor.org (21:3/117)
  • From Warpslide@21:3/110 to Andre Robitaille on Sunday, March 06, 2022 10:35:27
    On 06 Mar 2022, Andre Robitaille said the following...

    There are social norms in society, and we have some people in the BBS community that choose to be antisocial to get a reaction out of everyone so that they can feel powerful.

    Yup, exactly this. There's very little point in engaging with these individuals, they will never agree with you or change their mind.

    One can post a message saying "the sky is blue" and they wholeheartedly disagree all the while demeaning/belittling the person they're replying to.

    These are the people I put on my twit filter, they add nothing to conversation and in fact make the entire community less enjoyable.


    Jay

    ... The world looks as if it has been left in the custody of trolls.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/03/04 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Northern Realms (21:3/110)
  • From Andre Robitaille@21:3/117 to Warpslide on Sunday, March 06, 2022 09:45:27
    Yup, exactly this. There's very little point in engaging with these individuals, they will never agree with you or change their mind.

    “Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.”


    Andre
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Radio Mentor BBS - bbs.radiomentor.org (21:3/117)
  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to Andre Robitaille on Sunday, March 06, 2022 09:35:13
    Andre Robitaille wrote to Blue White <=-

    I have found that people defend in that manner when the person they are defending against came on in an attacking manner, i.e. it is two-sided. Not always, but often so.

    This is the only point that I disagree on. Just logitally it doesn't
    hold water becauwe someone has to start it.

    Agreed, someone does have to start it. I guess I am thinking of a
    discussion between two people, like this one between us, where a third
    party joins with both guns already blazing. Where, right now, you and I
    are discussing in a civil manner, the third person has likely put one or
    both of us on the defensive.

    But you are correct, someone has to start it.

    Unless you are willing to hold that one echo to a much lower standard that the rest of the network, I still think the best alternative is to direct people to other networks where such behavior is less frowned upon.

    But otherwise I couldn't agree more with all your points, and
    especially your conclusion above.

    Unfortunately I think we have long passed the point where most political discussions can remain civil. US politics, in particular, has been fairly devisive for at least 25-30 years now. It is very difficult to have such discussions without someone finding, or looking for, something to become uncivil about.



    ... The number you have dailed...Nine-one-one...has been changed.
    --- MultiMail
    * Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:7636/SSH:2122 (21:4/134)
  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to DustCouncil on Sunday, March 06, 2022 09:49:08
    DustCouncil wrote to Avon <=-

    If we could measure all of the words and energy spent online advocating for one political point or another, and somehow quantify it: blood pressure points, characters or words typed, or number of time spent
    doing this, and measured it against a metric of how many people changed their minds because of a better argument, it'd be interesting to see
    that ratio.

    There are a few people who ask honest questions and whose opinions might
    change based on the responses, but most folks won't change their minds even when presented with third-party evidence to the contrary. I am guessing
    the ratio would sadly be out-of-whack.

    If anything, I feel like seeing an opposing view often makes most folks
    that participate in political forums hold on more tightly to their own
    views.


    ... Spelling is a sober man's game
    --- MultiMail
    * Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:7636/SSH:2122 (21:4/134)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Andre Robitaille on Sunday, March 06, 2022 12:41:36
    On 06 Mar 22 09:12:01, Andre Robitaille said the following to Atreyu:

    I've seen people say this before, and it's not at all true. It's a mangling that you can only be hurt by someone if you allow yourself to be.

    Is the expression not true? I've never been offended by anything on any FTN, ever, in fact never offended by *anything*. I know the earth will still
    revolve around the sun with or without whatever happens to my "feelings".

    Regardless, that's not the issue here. This is a public-ish forum, and ther are other people who have to witness the disussion. There are social norms society, and we have some people in the BBS community that choose to be antisocial to get a reaction out of everyone so that they can feel powerful

    Agreed with what you wrote, but not with the "have to witness" part. Nobody is forced to witness anything. If something becomes upsetting or offensive, then switch it off. Nobody forces me to read silly echomail... uhh, well for the most part. Some stuff I "have" to read but its all pedantic nonsense. People yacking about nodelists or their precious Linux installs. I could care less.

    Its only like one or two non-American trolls that at one time made such a big deal of American politics. Nobody appears to be in a flamewar over Putin, I doubt anyone would try to troll someone over that.

    I just think that we're all mature adults that can weed out trolls on our own without having to engage Avon for babysitting services.

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From DustCouncil@21:1/227 to Andre Robitaille on Monday, March 07, 2022 01:37:23
    TL;DR

    Do you think there should be a separate politics message area or not?

    You know when you encountered my message, how little you cared to read it, that you took the effort to post "TL;DR"?

    I care about the fact that you didn't read it, even less than that.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Shipwrecks & Shibboleths [San Francisco, CA - USA] (21:1/227)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to DustCouncil on Sunday, March 06, 2022 20:08:00
    DustCouncil wrote to Andre Robitaille <=-

    TL;DR

    Do you think there should be a separate politics message area or not?

    You know when you encountered my message, how little you cared to
    read it, that you took the effort to post "TL;DR"?

    I care about the fact that you didn't read it, even less than
    that.

    Well, in all fairness, your post was VERY long, and did not address the question that was asked by Avon. Did not address it AT ALL.

    It was just a rambling manifesto of your personal feelings on politics,
    which was not the point of the question that was asked, and had no
    relevance to it.


    ... You can't save yourselves. But you can save your legacy. -Hari Seldon
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
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  • From Vorlon@21:1/195.1 to Atreyu on Monday, March 07, 2022 13:39:52

    Hello Atreyu!

    06 Mar 22 12:41, you wrote to Andre Robitaille:

    I know the earth will still revolve around the sun with or without whatever happens to my "feelings".


    *What*? The earth revolves around the sun! How intriguing.... <8O)



    Vorlon


    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: \/orlon Empire: Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Vorlon on Monday, March 07, 2022 08:20:21
    On 07 Mar 22 13:39:52, Vorlon said the following to Atreyu:

    I know the earth will still revolve around the sun with or without whatever happens to my "feelings".

    *What*? The earth revolves around the sun! How intriguing.... <8O)

    LOL, so I'm told! "Trust the science" the media says!

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From deon@21:2/116 to Vorlon on Tuesday, March 08, 2022 10:41:45
    Re: Politics
    By: Vorlon to Atreyu on Mon Mar 07 2022 01:39 pm

    *What*? The earth revolves around the sun! How intriguing.... <8O)

    That's what you learnt? I learnt that the sky was blue - go figure...


    ...
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)
  • From JoE DooM@21:1/230 to Avon on Wednesday, March 09, 2022 09:11:04
    I wonder if an echo that had a geo-political or just political focus
    to it would be a starter? If it was set up it could be a place for

    I would like to see a specific echo for political topics.

    Personally, I have no interest in politics and every time I encounter
    political messages and seeing people get angry, it puts me off even
    logging in and reading messages.

    To the point where there have been a couple of times where I've
    considered dropping fsxnet. It's already caused one Australian BBS
    software developer to disconnect from fsxnet and even caused him to
    partly lose interest in BBSs.

    Political discussions negate the 'f' in fsx for me.


    --- Talisman v0.37-dev (Linux/x86_64)
    * Origin: Lost Underground BBS (21:1/230)
  • From Al@21:4/106 to JoE DooM on Tuesday, March 08, 2022 15:57:16
    I wonder if an echo that had a geo-political or just political focus
    to it would be a starter? If it was set up it could be a place for

    I would like to see a specific echo for political topics.

    I agree. Political discussions often devolve into name calling and ranting, or worse.

    It's almost impossible to avoid politics and if people choose to follow or paticipate in political discussion they can do that in an area devoted to that and people can tune in or out as they choose.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-5
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)
  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to Atreyu on Tuesday, March 08, 2022 16:19:20
    Atreyu wrote to Avon <=-

    On 05 Mar 22 14:55:00, Avon said the following to All:

    It really amazes me that of all the Linux or technically-competent
    people you have here, nobody thinks to use a twit-filter to trash the messages from senders they don't want on their system. I'm running old

    I have that on my Synchronet system. twits out a couple of prolific FIDO Politics posters, and also makes sure their messages don't get passed to
    this bbs, either. :)

    The majority of that hurtful/extreme discord you mention, are a couple
    of non Americans trolling about American politics for no reason other
    than thats their definition of fun for them.

    Indeed.



    ... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
    --- MultiMail
    * Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:7636/SSH:2122 (21:4/134)
  • From Andre Robitaille@21:3/117 to Blue White on Tuesday, March 08, 2022 18:41:20
    It really amazes me that of all the Linux or technically-competent
    people you have here, nobody thinks to use a twit-filter to trash
    the messages from senders they don't want on their system.

    Many of the people here aren't very technically competent. But that aside, it's not that we don't think of twitlisting people. It's that we think that it's valueable to moderate a bit when people are especially vulgar or antagonistic.


    - Andre
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Radio Mentor BBS - bbs.radiomentor.org (21:3/117)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to JoE DooM on Wednesday, March 09, 2022 07:16:00
    JoE DooM wrote to Avon <=-

    I wonder if an echo that had a geo-political or just political focus
    to it would be a starter? If it was set up it could be a place for

    I would like to see a specific echo for political topics.

    Unfortunately, in other networks, the political trolls insist on posting on the general board, claiming that a general topic board is fair game for political topics, even if a politics board exists.

    To the point where there have been a couple of times where I've
    considered dropping fsxnet. It's already caused one Australian BBS software developer to disconnect from fsxnet and even caused him to
    partly lose interest in BBSs.

    Political discussions negate the 'f' in fsx for me.

    I like the fact that FSXnet is the one stated politics-free network, for the reason I mentioned above.


    ... Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From Vorlon@21:1/195.1 to Atreyu on Thursday, March 10, 2022 10:32:32

    Hello Atreyu!

    07 Mar 22 08:20, you wrote to me:

    I know the earth will still revolve around the sun with or
    without whatever happens to my "feelings".

    *What*? The earth revolves around the sun! How intriguing.... <8O)

    LOL, so I'm told! "Trust the science" the media says!

    Science is more trusting than the media at times! ;./



    Vorlon


    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: \/orlon Empire: Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)
  • From Vorlon@21:1/195.1 to deon on Thursday, March 10, 2022 10:39:30

    Hello deon!

    08 Mar 22 10:41, you wrote to me:

    *What*? The earth revolves around the sun! How intriguing.... <8O)

    That's what you learnt? I learnt that the sky was blue - go figure...

    Where I'm am right now, it's gray! ^-<




    Vorlon


    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: \/orlon Empire: Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)
  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to Andre Robitaille on Thursday, March 10, 2022 16:06:31
    Andre Robitaille wrote to Blue White <=-

    It really amazes me that of all the Linux or technically-competent
    people you have here, nobody thinks to use a twit-filter to trash
    the messages from senders they don't want on their system.

    Many of the people here aren't very technically competent. But that
    aside, it's not that we don't think of twitlisting people. It's that we think that it's valueable to moderate a bit when people are especially vulgar or antagonistic.

    It was actually someone else that posted that first quote, but I do agree
    with you. There are some people who have a lot to contribute so long as
    you keep them off of politics. For some reason, they see a political discussion as a place to "show their a$$es" and think they don't have to
    behave like they do otherwise. So you don't want to filter them entirely.

    There are a couple that have made it into my twitlist due to posts on
    another network... I finally decided that they really don't contribute
    anything to any discussions so it was no loss at all.



    ... ....we came in?
    --- MultiMail
    * Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:7636/SSH:2122 (21:4/134)
  • From Nuke@21:3/161 to Avon on Tuesday, March 15, 2022 20:33:27
    Golly what a business eh, this politics stuff :)
    I wonder if an echo that had a geo-political or just political focus to
    it would be a starter? If it was set up it could be a place for discussions about global politics and peoples thoughts, fears, hopes
    etc. the come with it.
    I enjoy news and I do follow local and national political events here in New Zealand. I am also following closely what is happing in Europe (with dismay and sadness) and keeping an eye on the South Pacific region
    (closer to my country) with interest too.

    I agree with other responses that this is a hard area to manage and could cause "drama". That said, we are in a very scary time and I seek an avenue to hear my friends on the other side of the world and how they are faring, what they are experiencing, and their insights. MRC is not fulfilling this, and hearing about "Favorite Fast Food" is not either. I don't have a solution other than to "try it" - but I think it's needed. We are a global community and best - we are not in a social giant that can suddenly censor particular lines of thought because they don't like them. We need this discussion to help better understand each other.

    -=Nuke=- SYSOP / ItchyButt.net telnet 8888 ssh 8889

    ... I'm not old.. I'm RETRO.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Itchy-Butt BBS (21:3/161)
  • From Utopian Galt@21:4/108 to Nuke on Tuesday, March 15, 2022 17:34:10
    BY: Nuke(21:3/161)


    I agree with other responses that this is a hard area to manage and
    could cause "drama". That said, we are in a very scary time and I seek
    an avenue to hear my friends on the other side of the world and how they
    are faring, what they are experiencing, and their insights. MRC is not fulfilling this, and hearing about "Favorite Fast Food" is not either. I don't have a solution other than to "try it" - but I think it's needed.
    We are a global community and best - we are not in a social giant that
    can suddenly censor particular lines of thought because they don't like them. We need this discussion to help better understand each other.
    I know we have people of varrying perspectives. Instead of saying blah blah blah is full of poo you need to explain why blah blah blah is full of poo with facts.


    --- WWIV 5.5.1.3261
    * Origin: inland utopia * california * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (21:4/108)
  • From McDoob@21:4/135 to Utopian Galt on Wednesday, March 16, 2022 00:48:53
    I know we have people of varrying perspectives. Instead of saying blah blah blah is full of poo you need to explain why blah blah blah is full
    of poo with facts.

    And also without saying blah blah is full of poo at all...(o_O)

    McDoob
    SysOp, PiBBS
    pibbs.sytes.net

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: PiBBS (21:4/135)
  • From McDoob@21:4/135 to Avon on Friday, March 18, 2022 11:51:26
    Golly what a business eh, this politics stuff :)

    I recall I asked we didn't cover that and religion because at the time
    it seemed some echomail areas were getting taken over by heated
    arguments between folks, often about USA politics and who was left and
    who was right and which leader was good or not etc. etc.

    For me I'm not against political discussion per say but I am against any hurtful or unkind or extreme discord that can unfortunately arise when something in that political or religious space comes up and people feel they must defend their point of view tooth and nail but do so in a way that descends into acrimony.

    So I'm not against political chatter per say but against the poor behaviour that seems to accompany it when some go off the deep end
    trying to convey their point of view.

    I wonder if an echo that had a geo-political or just political focus to
    it would be a starter? If it was set up it could be a place for discussions about global politics and peoples thoughts, fears, hopes
    etc. the come with it.

    I enjoy news and I do follow local and national political events here in New Zealand. I am also following closely what is happing in Europe (with dismay and sadness) and keeping an eye on the South Pacific region (closer to my country) with interest too.

    So for me to chat about any of that stuff I'd likely need to adjust
    things in fsx to create such an echo for that kind of chatter and focus.

    But it occurs to me that where the bulk of any such chatter has landed
    in the past (as I mentioned earlier) was in the USA political space. And
    I guess that's also understandable as many nodes in fsx are USA based
    and it's been a busy/changable time in USA politics for some years now with several high profile people generating engagement in folks for and against their espoused views.

    Another thought would be to also create a USA specific politics echo but the it
    seems a bit unfair to the rest of the globe :) And I do worry it could turn sour in content posted if people forgot about the values of the network and started chucking metaphorical barbs at each other :( Never good nor fun, nor kind.

    These are some of my thoughts :) Not in any order nor intent to act in
    any time soon (given my travels)

    But if we could find a way to continue to agree to conduct ourselves in
    a way that is civil if such an echo(s) were created I'd be open to
    looking at it / giving it a try.

    I will x-post this to FSX_NET ... can you please reply to that echo as this is essentially a network admin etc. topic so let's plonk that
    chatter there.

    Best, Paul

    I have waited to give my opinion on this. I am fully aware of the amount
    of negativity that can arise when talking about these subjects, as I am somewhat active in the POLITICS echo over on Fidonet. And this is why I've decided that I agree with the popular opinion that you've heard from many others. This is a bad idea, Paul...

    The very least problem of endorsing these conversations would be a sharp increase in your moderator work load. A potential worst-case scenario would
    be having members abandon this 'net, the way it has happened on Fidonet.

    I think you should stick to what you're doing right now, with the Ukraine discussion: specifically allowing a certain amount of friendly conversation, but discouraging politics and religion as a general rule.

    Perhaps an echo for 'world events', as a place to discuss these things. But certainly *not* a politics echo!

    Just my opinion, of course. (^_^)

    McDoob
    SysOp, PiBBS
    pibbs.sytes.net

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: PiBBS (21:4/135)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to McDoob on Friday, March 18, 2022 19:25:00
    McDoob wrote to Avon <=-

    But if we could find a way to continue to agree to conduct ourselves in
    a way that is civil if such an echo(s) were created I'd be open to
    looking at it / giving it a try.

    I will x-post this to FSX_NET ... can you please reply to that echo as this is essentially a network admin etc. topic so let's plonk that
    chatter there.

    Best, Paul

    I have waited to give my opinion on this. I am fully aware of the
    amount of negativity that can arise when talking about these
    subjects, as I am somewhat active in the POLITICS echo over on
    Fidonet. And this is why I've decided that I agree with the
    popular opinion that you've heard from many others. This is a bad
    idea, Paul...

    I agree with this. Politics is a bad idea, even in it's own echo.

    The very least problem of endorsing these conversations would be
    a sharp increase in your moderator work load. A potential
    worst-case scenario would be having members abandon this 'net,
    the way it has happened on Fidonet.

    I think you should stick to what you're doing right now, with the
    Ukraine discussion: specifically allowing a certain amount of
    friendly conversation, but discouraging politics and religion as
    a general rule.

    Perhaps an echo for 'world events', as a place to discuss these
    things. But certainly *not* a politics echo!

    I don't think there is any actual difference between "world events" and "politics". Such an echo would be EXACTLY the same as having an echo
    for politics, and is equally as bad of an idea.



    ... If it weren't for Edison we'd be using computers by candlelight
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From McDoob@21:4/135 to Gamgee on Friday, March 18, 2022 21:20:00
    Perhaps an echo for 'world events', as a place to discuss these things. But certainly *not* a politics echo!

    I don't think there is any actual difference between "world events" and "politics". Such an echo would be EXACTLY the same as having an echo
    for politics, and is equally as bad of an idea.

    That's a very real possibility. And yes, equally as bad.

    However, should any discussion of world events be taboo as a result? It's a hard line to draw, one way or the other. And if we were to draw that line with too much detail, members may find themselves unable to speak for fear of crossing it. That would be worse.

    McDoob
    SysOp, PiBBS
    pibbs.sytes.net

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: PiBBS (21:4/135)
  • From Utopian Galt@21:4/108 to Mcdoob on Friday, March 18, 2022 19:19:50
    BY: McDoob(21:4/135)


    Perhaps an echo for 'world events', as a place to discuss these things.
    But
    certainly *not* a politics echo!
    Allow for 2-3 days for certain issues to be discussed and then after that period its swept away unless a new development happens.


    --- WWIV 5.5.1.3261
    * Origin: inland utopia * california * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (21:4/108)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Gamgee on Friday, March 18, 2022 20:54:59
    Re: Re: Politics
    By: Gamgee to McDoob on Fri Mar 18 2022 07:25 pm

    Perhaps an echo for 'world events', as a place to discuss these
    things. But certainly *not* a politics echo!

    I don't think there is any actual difference between "world events" and "politics". Such an echo would be EXACTLY the same as having an echo
    for politics, and is equally as bad of an idea.

    Not all world events involve politics.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to Nightfox on Saturday, March 19, 2022 08:09:00
    Nightfox wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Perhaps an echo for 'world events', as a place to discuss these
    things. But certainly *not* a politics echo!

    I don't think there is any actual difference between "world events" and "politics". Such an echo would be EXACTLY the same as having an echo
    for politics, and is equally as bad of an idea.

    Not all world events involve politics.

    While that may technically be true, I think the events would quickly
    devolve into politics. Like within 4-5 posts/replies.

    For example:

    1. Let's say there are catastrophic storms (tornados, hurricanes)
    somewhere. Certainly a world event. But, within a few posts, the topic
    of "climate change" would come up, and then......

    2. Sports? Olympics? Pretty soon we're talking about transgender,
    doping, boycotts, and........ yep.

    3. War? Ukraine? Please........

    That's my opinion, anyway, and I think it's a pretty accurate
    description of what would happen.


    ... Strip mining prevents forest fires.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to McDoob on Saturday, March 19, 2022 09:52:29
    McDoob wrote to Gamgee <=-

    That's a very real possibility. And yes, equally as bad.

    However, should any discussion of world events be taboo as a result?
    It's a hard line to draw, one way or the other. And if we were to draw that line with too much detail, members may find themselves unable to speak for fear of crossing it. That would be worse.

    Depends on the World event. Natural disasters aside, most "World events"
    start with a leader, or leading body, which is full of politicians, doing something noteworthy, good or bad. So it would be next to impossible to
    state an opinion about said event without it becoming political.


    ... Got my tie caught in the fax... Suddenly I was in L.A.
    --- MultiMail
    * Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:7636/SSH:2122 (21:4/134)
  • From McDoob@21:4/135 to Gamgee on Saturday, March 19, 2022 11:42:56
    Perhaps an echo for 'world events', as a place to discuss these
    things. But certainly *not* a politics echo!

    I don't think there is any actual difference between "world events" a "politics". Such an echo would be EXACTLY the same as having an echo for politics, and is equally as bad of an idea.

    Not all world events involve politics.

    While that may technically be true, I think the events would quickly devolve into politics. Like within 4-5 posts/replies.

    That's my opinion, anyway, and I think it's a pretty accurate
    description of what would happen.

    Gamgee makes a valid point (please stop doing that (o_-) ). It is entirely too likely that this is exactly what would happen. We humans have trouble getting along sometimes.

    However, it's also not guaranteed, especially here on fsxNet, where we have a tendency to 'self-regulate'.

    At the end of the day, I agree with Gamgee, and I feel like it's best not to make any changes. Disallow politics, but don't necessarily crack down immediately when current events are being discussed. If the discussion starts to devolve, then put a stop to it.

    McDoob
    SysOp, PiBBS
    pibbs.sytes.net

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: PiBBS (21:4/135)
  • From McDoob@21:4/135 to Blue White on Saturday, March 19, 2022 11:45:46
    However, should any discussion of world events be taboo as a result? It's a hard line to draw, one way or the other. And if we were to dra that line with too much detail, members may find themselves unable to speak for fear of crossing it. That would be worse.

    Depends on the World event. Natural disasters aside, most "World events" start with a leader, or leading body, which is full of politicians, doing something noteworthy, good or bad. So it would be next to impossible to state an opinion about said event without it becoming political.

    Again, that's a valid point, and something to be concerned about. But I don't think we should automatically make this 'taboo', unless it gets out of control...

    Personally, I am very glad that it's not up to me to make this decision! (^_^)

    McDoob
    SysOp, PiBBS
    pibbs.sytes.net

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: PiBBS (21:4/135)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Gamgee on Saturday, March 19, 2022 11:42:07
    Re: Re: Politics
    By: Gamgee to Nightfox on Sat Mar 19 2022 08:09 am

    Not all world events involve politics.

    While that may technically be true, I think the events would quickly devolve into politics. Like within 4-5 posts/replies.

    For example:

    1. Let's say there are catastrophic storms (tornados, hurricanes) somewhere. Certainly a world event. But, within a few posts, the topic
    of "climate change" would come up, and then......

    I agree (and was thinking about that). It seems like Avon is a fairly good mod for FSXNet and could help curtail some of that - but still it might happen too often to deal with easily.

    There's an online forum I talk on, which has a "general" area and world events come up sometimes. Politics is against the rules there, and occasionally things start to get into politics, but the admins usually delete such posts. Most of the time, the people there are fairly good about not getting too political.

    Deleting inappropriate messages isn't really feasible for a BBS message network though. Other BBSes would have already downloaded the message, and the conversation can more easily continue on into politics.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to Nightfox on Saturday, March 19, 2022 15:10:00
    Nightfox wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Not all world events involve politics.

    While that may technically be true, I think the events would quickly devolve into politics. Like within 4-5 posts/replies.

    For example:

    1. Let's say there are catastrophic storms (tornados, hurricanes) somewhere. Certainly a world event. But, within a few posts, the topic
    of "climate change" would come up, and then......

    I agree (and was thinking about that). It seems like Avon is a
    fairly good mod for FSXNet and could help curtail some of that -
    but still it might happen too often to deal with easily.

    Yes, I think it would happen often enough that Avon would quickly get
    tired of having to deal with it.

    There's an online forum I talk on, which has a "general" area and
    world events come up sometimes. Politics is against the rules
    there, and occasionally things start to get into politics, but
    the admins usually delete such posts. Most of the time, the
    people there are fairly good about not getting too political.

    I think we've seen from both Fido and Dove that people may not be so
    good about it in the BBS world...

    Deleting inappropriate messages isn't really feasible for a BBS
    message network though. Other BBSes would have already
    downloaded the message, and the conversation can more easily
    continue on into politics.

    Absolutely true, and one of the biggest differences between a forum
    and the FTN/QWK world. There's virtually no way to stop it if people
    are insistent on continuing, as one can simply change names/aliases,
    or even get a feed from a different source.

    All in all, it seems like "an accident waiting to happen" to allow
    such echos here in FSX, when we have the history of what's happened in
    other networks to guide us.


    ... Pros are those who do their jobs well, even when they don't feel like it. === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to McDoob on Saturday, March 19, 2022 15:19:00
    McDoob wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Perhaps an echo for 'world events', as a place to discuss these
    things. But certainly *not* a politics echo!

    I don't think there is any actual difference between "world events" a "politics". Such an echo would be EXACTLY the same as having an echo for politics, and is equally as bad of an idea.

    Not all world events involve politics.

    While that may technically be true, I think the events would quickly devolve into politics. Like within 4-5 posts/replies.

    That's my opinion, anyway, and I think it's a pretty accurate
    description of what would happen.

    Gamgee makes a valid point (please stop doing that (o_-) ). It is
    entirely too likely that this is exactly what would happen. We
    humans have trouble getting along sometimes.

    Indeed I do, and indeed we do. ;-)

    However, it's also not guaranteed, especially here on fsxNet,
    where we have a tendency to 'self-regulate'.

    Perhaps better than some other networks, no doubt. But when the heavy
    weapons come out, it will get ugly.

    At the end of the day, I agree with Gamgee, and I feel like it's
    best not to make any changes. Disallow politics, but don't
    necessarily crack down immediately when current events are being discussed. If the discussion starts to devolve, then put a stop
    to it.

    Glad there seems to be some consensus on this, and I agree that there's
    nothing wrong with "current events" as long as somebody is paying
    some attention to things and can step in and ask for a cease-fire when
    needed. That doesn't always have to be Avon, either, and goes with your
    point above about "self-regulation". Let's remember that if someone just
    has to talk politics, there are plenty of other places to do it, and it's
    nice to have somewhere that's free of it.


    ... Behind every great man is an amazed mother-in-law!
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From McDoob@21:4/135 to Gamgee on Saturday, March 19, 2022 17:55:09
    That doesn't always have to be Avon, either, and goes with your
    point above about "self-regulation". Let's remember that if someone just has to talk politics, there are plenty of other places to do it, and it's nice to have somewhere that's free of it.

    I'm not certain if you've noticed or not, but I have a habit of helping
    people 'self-regulate' when they need it...(o_-)

    I fully agree. I like the f-word in fsxNet! This should, as much as possible, be a light-hearted place. There's plenty of vitriol to go around on other 'nets. Even a McNoob would know that! \(^_^)/

    McDoob
    SysOp, PiBBS
    pibbs.sytes.net

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: PiBBS (21:4/135)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to McDoob on Saturday, March 19, 2022 21:27:00
    McDoob wrote to Gamgee <=-

    That doesn't always have to be Avon, either, and goes with your
    point above about "self-regulation". Let's remember that if someone just has to talk politics, there are plenty of other places to do it, and it's nice to have somewhere that's free of it.

    I'm not certain if you've noticed or not, but I have a habit of
    helping people 'self-regulate' when they need it...(o_-)

    I have noticed. While that is not necessarily bad, I'd recommend that
    you tread somewhat lightly with that.

    I fully agree. I like the f-word in fsxNet! This should, as much
    as possible, be a light-hearted place. There's plenty of vitriol
    to go around on other 'nets. Even a McNoob would know that!
    \(^_^)/

    Haha. Touche'. :-)



    ... Something will have to be done, something irresponsible.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From McDoob@21:4/135 to Gamgee on Sunday, March 20, 2022 08:23:16
    I'm not certain if you've noticed or not, but I have a habit of helping people 'self-regulate' when they need it...(o_-)

    I have noticed. While that is not necessarily bad, I'd recommend that
    you tread somewhat lightly with that.

    Sir, what you see in fsxNet *is* me treading lightly! You, of all people, know how I get when I start stomping around. (o_O)

    I know I'm not exactly making friends when I do that sort of thing, but
    that's okay. Not everyone is going to think I am awesome. I am more than willing to think so in their absense.

    Like me, or hate me. But never forget me! (o_-)

    McDoob
    SysOp, PiBBS
    pibbs.sytes.net

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: PiBBS (21:4/135)
  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to McDoob on Sunday, March 20, 2022 09:54:50
    McDoob wrote to Blue White <=-

    Personally, I am very glad that it's not up to me to make this
    decision! (^_^)

    Agreed!


    ... DalekDOS v(overflow): (I)Obey (V)ision impaired (E)xterminate
    --- MultiMail
    * Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:7636/SSH:2122 (21:4/134)
  • From Utopian Galt@21:4/108 to Mcdoob on Sunday, March 20, 2022 11:30:20
    BY: McDoob(21:4/135)


    I fully agree. I like the f-word in fsxNet! This should, as much as possible,
    be a light-hearted place. There's plenty of vitriol to go around on
    I think the goal is to be classy yet respectful if we lead to touchy topics.


    --- WWIV 5.5.1.3261
    * Origin: inland utopia * california * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (21:4/108)
  • From Solaris@21:2/1202 to Avon on Tuesday, March 22, 2022 23:29:37
    I have an idea
    I have been kicking around the idea for creating a politics net . What if I make a new net about politics and test run to see how toxic it gets . ill host it here and we call it something like FSXnet Politics with new zone number or I could call something else like 404 or 1202 politics . or just politicsNet ... Im willing if anybody likes that idea .

    Sysop SolaRis
    Error 1202 and Error 404 BBS !
    FSXnet HuB 2 Tholian AdmiN !

    ... Evil triumphs when good people do nothing. - Einstein

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/01/10 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: Error 1202 BBS ! (21:2/1202)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to McDoob on Wednesday, March 23, 2022 15:17:00
    On 03-19-22 11:42, McDoob wrote to Gamgee <=-

    At the end of the day, I agree with Gamgee, and I feel like it's best
    not to make any changes. Disallow politics, but don't necessarily crack down immediately when current events are being discussed. If the discussion starts to devolve, then put a stop to it.

    That sounds like a sensible middle of the road approach.


    ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (F)#@K it!
    === MultiMail/Win v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Nigel Reed@21:2/101 to All on Wednesday, March 23, 2022 03:53:42
    On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 23:29:37 -0400
    "Solaris" <solaris@21:2/1202> wrote:

    I have an idea
    I have been kicking around the idea for creating a politics net .
    What if I make a new net about politics and test run to see how toxic
    it gets . ill host it here and we call it something like FSXnet
    Politics with new zone number or I could call something else like 404
    or 1202 politics . or just politicsNet ... Im willing if anybody
    likes that idea .

    Why?

    FIDO_ALLPOLIT ALL-POLITICS
    FIDO_POLITICS POLITICS
    SPOOKNETSNPOLITI SN_POLITICS
    ILPOLITICS IL_POLITICS
    WNWENPOLIT WEN-POLITICS

    You've got 5 different politics areas on 4 different networks, why
    don't you use one of those rather than constructing another dead
    network?
    --
    End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
    telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (21:2/101)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Solaris on Wednesday, March 23, 2022 22:58:10
    I have an idea
    I have been kicking around the idea for creating a politics net . What
    if I make a new net about politics and test run to see how toxic it gets
    . ill host it here and we call it something like FSXnet Politics with
    new zone number or I could call something else like 404 or 1202 politics
    . or just politicsNet ... Im willing if anybody likes that idea .


    The issue is that discussion about politics can work. For example, a civilised discussion about Marxism, or the philosophical basis for Western Liberal Democracy.

    The reason things go toxic is because people aren't wanting to discuss political subjects, but want to PUSH their ideas. That want to push a political view, rather than talk about politics.

    It will be hard to keep these toxic people out, and I'll save you the trouble of creating another dead network, and tell you that with almost all certainty, it will turn rancid. Politics these days is rancid because people don't know how to discuss it.

    I would think instead of creating a net, we could just try an actual BBS dedicated to politics, that way if it does turn out a bad idea, its a simple matter of closing the BBS. This doesn't leave a 'defunct' network out there.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to Nigel Reed on Wednesday, March 23, 2022 09:03:00
    Hello Nigel Reed!

    ** On Wednesday 23.03.22 - 03:53, Nigel Reed wrote to All:

    "Solaris" <solaris@21:2/1202> wrote:

    I have an idea
    I have been kicking around the idea for creating a politics net .
    What if I make a new net about politics and test run to see..

    FIDO_ALLPOLIT ALL-POLITICS
    FIDO_POLITICS POLITICS
    SPOOKNETSNPOLITI SN_POLITICS
    ILPOLITICS IL_POLITICS
    WNWENPOLIT WEN-POLITICS

    You've got 5 different politics areas on 4 different networks, why
    don't you use one of those rather than constructing another dead
    network?

    A dedicated net could provide "sub" categories for particular
    topics.

    Eg.

    PoliticsNet/USA-Only
    PoliticsNet/Europe-Only
    PoliticsNet/World

    ..etc.

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: Ogg's WestCoast Point (21:4/106.21)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Solaris on Wednesday, March 23, 2022 09:28:51
    Re: Re: To All ( PoliticsNet )
    By: Solaris to Avon on Tue Mar 22 2022 11:29 pm

    I have an idea
    I have been kicking around the idea for creating a politics net . What if I make a new net about politics and test run to see how toxic it gets .

    I have a feeling that could be a recipe for disaster. :P

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Utopian Galt@21:4/108 to Boraxman on Wednesday, March 23, 2022 20:07:15
    BY: boraxman(21:1/101)


    I would think instead of creating a net, we could just try an actual BBS dedicated to politics, that way if it does turn out a bad idea, its a
    simple matter of closing the BBS. This doesn't leave a 'defunct'
    network out there.
    Im thinking of making a 2nd bbs Called Inland Utopia 2.0
    Maybe I might do that.


    --- WWIV 5.5.1.3261
    * Origin: inland utopia * california * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (21:4/108)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Utopian Galt on Thursday, March 24, 2022 21:57:20
    I would think instead of creating a net, we could just try an actual BB dedicated to politics, that way if it does turn out a bad idea, its a simple matter of closing the BBS. This doesn't leave a 'defunct' network out there.
    Im thinking of making a 2nd bbs Called Inland Utopia 2.0
    Maybe I might do that.


    It would be easier to administer and keep the malcontents off too, if it is dedicated BBS?

    It would be a BBS I might join myself, depending on how it goes.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to boraxman on Friday, March 25, 2022 20:48:00
    On 03-23-22 22:58, boraxman wrote to Solaris <=-

    I would think instead of creating a net, we could just try an actual
    BBS dedicated to politics, that way if it does turn out a bad idea, its
    a simple matter of closing the BBS. This doesn't leave a 'defunct' network out there.

    Could do both, and if it flops, pull the BBS and the network more or less dies with it.


    ... What do you call a bee that can't make up it's mind? A maybe
    === MultiMail/Win v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to boraxman on Friday, March 25, 2022 20:51:00
    On 03-24-22 21:57, boraxman wrote to Utopian Galt <=-

    I would think instead of creating a net, we could just try an actual BB dedicated to politics, that way if it does turn out a bad idea, its a simple matter of closing the BBS. This doesn't leave a 'defunct' network out there.
    Im thinking of making a 2nd bbs Called Inland Utopia 2.0
    Maybe I might do that.


    It would be easier to administer and keep the malcontents off too, if
    it is dedicated BBS?

    It would be a BBS I might join myself, depending on how it goes.

    I'm more a "bring the network to me" person, I tend to forget to do many logins (one of several reasons why web forums are a failure for me). However, a politics network hosted by a dedicated political BBS might be a way out. Keep it simple, use QWK networking for those of us who do decide to take a feed. I'm in two minds, if it's well done it might be interesting, especially if it discusses politics, rather than becomes a forum for pushing beliefs.


    ... god@universe:~ # cvs up && make world
    === MultiMail/Win v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Vk3jed on Sunday, March 27, 2022 00:06:27
    I'm more a "bring the network to me" person, I tend to forget to do many logins (one of several reasons why web forums are a failure for me). However, a politics network hosted by a dedicated political BBS might be
    a way out. Keep it simple, use QWK networking for those of us who do decide to take a feed. I'm in two minds, if it's well done it might be interesting, especially if it discusses politics, rather than becomes a forum for pushing beliefs.


    From the political discussion I am trying to have on another network, I do not hold much hope of anything good coming from it. I kind of regret engaging in that discussion alone. We only have a few BBS users, and, well, you'll get lots of namecalling and assumptions and not much else.

    At least of the discussion is on a BBS dedicated to it, the users can be "curated" and those who just think political discussion is accusing people of being "facists" and "liberals" can be booted off. Creating a public 'net' has a moral hazard here, because you are inviting discussion, and it becomes harder to justify kicking off the malcontents. If it is just on your own private BBS, it is less like censorship.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to Vk3jed on Saturday, March 26, 2022 09:33:55
    Vk3jed wrote to boraxman <=-

    I'm more a "bring the network to me" person, I tend to forget to do
    many logins (one of several reasons why web forums are a failure for
    me). However, a politics network hosted by a dedicated political BBS might be a way out. Keep it simple, use QWK networking for those of us who do decide to take a feed. I'm in two minds, if it's well done it
    might be interesting, especially if it discusses politics, rather than becomes a forum for pushing beliefs.

    As someone earlier pointed out... FIDO has at least two echoes dedicated to politics, and ILink and Dovenet each have one. Why not just use one of
    those?



    ... Spelling is a sober man's game
    --- MultiMail
    * Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:7636/SSH:2122 (21:4/134)
  • From Utopian Galt@21:4/108 to Boraxman on Sunday, March 27, 2022 10:24:50
    BY: boraxman(21:1/101)


    Im thinking of making a 2nd bbs Called Inland Utopia 2.0
    Maybe I might do that.


    It would be easier to administer and keep the malcontents off too, if it
    is dedicated BBS?

    It would be a BBS I might join myself, depending on how it goes.
    I wanted to make like 20-30 message bases with forums of various topics. BBS would be largely center-right, but would be inclusive to drug legalization/decriminalization and lgbtq (positive and skeptics).


    --- WWIV 5.5.1.3261
    * Origin: inland utopia * california * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (21:4/108)
  • From Utopian Galt@21:4/108 to Blue White on Sunday, March 27, 2022 11:05:06
    BY: Blue White(21:4/134)


    As someone earlier pointed out... FIDO has at least two echoes dedicated
    to
    politics, and ILink and Dovenet each have one. Why not just use one of those?
    I was thinking of more specialist topics. It could be a perverse meld of PoofNet/SurvivalNet/WeedNet.


    --- WWIV 5.5.1.3261
    * Origin: inland utopia * california * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (21:4/108)
  • From Nigel Reed@21:2/101 to All on Monday, March 28, 2022 02:47:38
    On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 10:24:50 -0700
    "Utopian Galt" <utopian.galt@21:4/108> wrote:

    BY: boraxman(21:1/101)


    Im thinking of making a 2nd bbs Called Inland Utopia 2.0
    Maybe I might do that.


    It would be easier to administer and keep the malcontents off too,
    if it is dedicated BBS?

    It would be a BBS I might join myself, depending on how it goes.
    I wanted to make like 20-30 message bases with forums of various
    topics. BBS would be largely center-right, but would be inclusive to
    drug legalization/decriminalization and lgbtq (positive and
    skeptics).

    I would have nothing to do with a network like that. It's going to
    breed too much bad blood that should maybe be left undiscovered.
    --
    End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
    telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (21:2/101)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to boraxman on Friday, April 01, 2022 20:14:00
    On 03-27-22 00:06, boraxman wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    At least of the discussion is on a BBS dedicated to it, the users can
    be "curated" and those who just think political discussion is accusing people of being "facists" and "liberals" can be booted off. Creating a public 'net' has a moral hazard here, because you are inviting
    discussion, and it becomes harder to justify kicking off the
    malcontents. If it is just on your own private BBS, it is less like censorship.

    Yeah I see where you're coming from, but in a practical sense, a single BBS version isn't going to fly for me, for some of the same reasons web forums fail with me (at least the performance won't suck on a BBS ;) ).


    ... Life is not a cabaret, it's a circus!
    === MultiMail/Win v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Blue White on Friday, April 01, 2022 20:15:00
    On 03-26-22 09:33, Blue White wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    As someone earlier pointed out... FIDO has at least two echoes
    dedicated to politics, and ILink and Dovenet each have one. Why not
    just use one of those?

    Definitely an option. Only one of those I'm on is the Dovenet one as it turns out. :)


    ... File COLDBEER.CAN not found....operator not loaded!
    === MultiMail/Win v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Utopian Galt on Friday, April 01, 2022 20:42:00
    On 03-27-22 10:24, Utopian Galt wrote to Boraxman <=-

    It would be a BBS I might join myself, depending on how it goes.
    I wanted to make like 20-30 message bases with forums of various
    topics. BBS would be largely center-right, but would be inclusive to

    Hmm, I would hope it's more wide ranging than that. You've kinda lost my interest, I'm a little left od centre (not much, but enough to find the right off putting). :)

    drug legalization/decriminalization and lgbtq (positive and skeptics).

    Now those are areas that could be interesting, especially the issues surrounding legalisation of drugs. Despite being a non drug user myself (not even alcohol!), I have an open mind on the issue and can see some potential benefits, if this is appropriately managed.


    ... X-Files? No... They're downstairs. We're the Y-Files.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Utopian Galt on Friday, April 01, 2022 20:42:00
    On 03-27-22 11:05, Utopian Galt wrote to Blue White <=-

    BY: Blue White(21:4/134)


    As someone earlier pointed out... FIDO has at least two echoes dedicated to
    politics, and ILink and Dovenet each have one. Why not just use one of those?
    I was thinking of more specialist topics. It could be a perverse meld
    of PoofNet/SurvivalNet/WeedNet.

    Interesting mix there! :)


    ... Useless Invention: Reduced calorie water.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Cozmo@21:3/135 to Solaris on Wednesday, April 06, 2022 17:35:27
    I have an idea
    I have been kicking around the idea for creating a politics net . What
    if I make a new net about politics and test run to see how toxic it gets
    . ill host it here and we call it something like FSXnet Politics with
    new zone number or I
    could call something else like 404 or 1202 politics . or just
    politicsNet ... Im willing if anybody likes that idea .

    I would rather *NOT* see politics on fsxNet. That's one of the great things about it. If people want politics go to another message network.

    Politics are poison to any FTN. It turns off too many people.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/04/08 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Lunatics Unleashed BBS (21:3/135)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Cozmo on Wednesday, April 06, 2022 18:01:16
    Re: Re: To All ( PoliticsNet )
    By: Cozmo to Solaris on Wed Apr 06 2022 05:35 pm

    Politics are poison to any FTN. It turns off too many people.

    FTN, as in specifically FidoNet networks? Or poison to any message network in general?

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Andre Robitaille@21:3/117 to Nightfox on Wednesday, April 06, 2022 20:03:51
    Much like our round and round with netmail the other day… :)

    FTN includes othernets.


    - Andre
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Radio Mentor BBS - bbs.radiomentor.org (21:3/117)
  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to Cozmo on Thursday, April 07, 2022 15:47:53
    Cozmo wrote to Solaris <=-

    Politics are poison to any FTN. It turns off too many people.

    And just about anywhere else, too.



    ... 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely small values of 5
    --- MultiMail
    * Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:7636/SSH:2122 (21:4/134)
  • From Cozmo@21:3/135 to Nightfox on Saturday, April 09, 2022 15:50:52
    FTN, as in specifically FidoNet networks? Or poison to any message network in general?

    Personally I think poison to and message network.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/04/08 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Lunatics Unleashed BBS (21:3/135)
  • From Cozmo@21:3/135 to Blue White on Saturday, April 09, 2022 15:51:17
    Amen to that!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/04/08 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Lunatics Unleashed BBS (21:3/135)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Cozmo on Saturday, April 09, 2022 12:54:56
    Re: Re: To All ( PoliticsNet )
    By: Cozmo to Blue White on Sat Apr 09 2022 03:51 pm

    Amen to that!

    Amen to what? It would help to quote what you're replying to so people can follow the conversation.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From acn@21:3/127.1 to Nightfox on Monday, April 11, 2022 14:58:00
    Am 09.04.22 schrieb Nightfox@21:1/137 in FSX_NET:

    Hallo Nightfox,

    Amen to that!

    Amen to what? It would help to quote what you're replying to so
    people can follow the conversation.

    That's why I love OpenXP: You can just open the thread view and go to
    the message that is referenced :)
    (and most messages contain this information, as long as a 'reply'
    function is used to write it)

    Regards,
    Anna

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: Imzadi Box Point (21:3/127.1)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Cozmo on Sunday, April 10, 2022 07:56:00
    Cozmo wrote to Blue White <=-

    Amen to that!

    How about a political board where all of the member boards commit to only keeping 10-20 messages at any given time? Rant, and it disappears.




    ... A journey of a thousand sandwiches begins with a single cut.
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Warpslide on Saturday, May 14, 2022 11:16:03
    On 04 Mar 2022 at 09:09p, Warpslide pondered and said...

    I wonder if an echo that had a geo-political or just political focus it would be a starter?

    I personally wouldn't carry any echos related to religion or politics. Not to dissuade those who would want to carry such echos, I just prefer
    to stay away from such topics.

    Noted, and thanks for the feedback.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Andre Robitaille on Saturday, May 14, 2022 11:18:39
    On 04 Mar 2022 at 08:37p, Andre Robitaille pondered and said...

    I wonder if an echo that had a geo-political or just political focus would be a starter? If it was set up it could be a place for discussi about global politics and peoples thoughts, fears, hopes etc. the com with it.

    The problem with that concept is that the people who would spend time in that echo have an identity politics problem... They can't bringing politics, and usually being nasty to each other, into ever single discussion.

    Yes the concern for me is how to negate personal attacks when a debate on a political topic gets heated. That separation of line of argument vs personal attacks due to difference of opinion etc.

    I think the cons wildly outweigh the pros.

    Noted thanks Andrew :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Utopian Galt on Saturday, May 14, 2022 11:20:21
    On 04 Mar 2022 at 07:59p, Utopian Galt pondered and said...

    Politics can get personal and very petty like World Wrestling Entertainment. You can see it on the Fidonet politics echos. I think
    many of us are trying to restrain ourselves when we get into the
    politics posts when major world events happen.

    Yep, it's hard eh? Because for me I enjoy discussing world news and events and enjoy hearing from others as to their views, it's when it veers into personal attacks and seemingly non-mutual respect I want to run a mile :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Blue White on Saturday, May 14, 2022 11:24:26
    On 05 Mar 2022 at 10:58a, Blue White pondered and said...

    I have found that people defend in that manner when the person they are defending against came on in an attacking manner, i.e. it is two-sided. Not always, but often so.

    Yes agree, it's sometimes a case of perception of emotions too inferred by the written word that may or may not have been actually intended by the original author too. Not easy eh?

    Moderating a Politics echo in another network, I would not hold out much hope for that. I am afraid it would turn out like past political dicussion in FSX_GEN here... what starts as a mostly civil discussion of something would quickly turn to name calling and f-bombing.

    There are actually people I interact with in other echos that I would never suspect of such behavior that will drop into the politics echos
    for the specific purpose of trolling, causing trouble, and other such behaviors that a bored person might participate in.

    Unless you are willing to hold that one echo to a much lower standard
    that the rest of the network, I still think the best alternative is to direct people to other networks where such behavior is less frowned upon.

    Thanks for your thoughts, all noted.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to fang-castro on Saturday, May 14, 2022 11:27:10
    On 05 Mar 2022 at 06:21p, fang-castro pondered and said...

    I wonder if an echo that had a geo-political or just political focus it would be a starter? If it was set up it could be a place for

    yes please. have you seen DOVEnet? every base is this bullshit.

    i login to BBSs and read echomail to have some time away from all this crap.

    OK so that's a yes to a politics echo? But you're also saying you would avoid it if it were created? That being the case my take away from your post is you would rather not see politics flowing in fsxNet. let me know if I misunderstand.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to DustCouncil on Saturday, May 14, 2022 11:31:48
    On 06 Mar 2022 at 10:21a, DustCouncil pondered and said...

    If we could measure all of the words and energy spent online advocating for one political point or another, and somehow quantify it: blood pressure points, characters or words typed, or number of time spent
    doing this, and measured it against a metric of how many people changed their minds because of a better argument, it'd be interesting to see
    that ratio.

    Indeed, and for me the key word is argument... discussion of ideological viewpoints is inherently a debate about differing views but if done in a mutually respectful way that does not descend into personal vitriol and with an openness to agree to disagree I think such discussions can serve a purpose. Do I see this happen much, Mmmm... probably not as much as I would like. But for those engaged in such dialogue I have time for them :)

    Not that anyone uses my board, but I'd carry (and currently carry) such echoes but don't subscribe to them. It is hard to understand the
    benefit. It creates discord and even hatred between people, without
    ever really being illuminating on any level. If discord and anger is
    the price, what's the countervailing benefit?

    I don't see one.

    Thanks noted. My takeaway is that's a general 'no thanks' for such an echo.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to JoE DooM on Saturday, May 14, 2022 11:35:09
    On 09 Mar 2022 at 09:11a, JoE DooM pondered and said...

    I would like to see a specific echo for political topics.

    OK thanks, noted.

    Personally, I have no interest in politics and every time I encounter political messages and seeing people get angry, it puts me off even logging in and reading messages.

    Political discussions negate the 'f' in fsx for me.

    My takeaway is that the absence of such an echo would not be missed by you. Thanks for the feedback, really helpful.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Al on Saturday, May 14, 2022 11:37:25
    On 08 Mar 2022 at 03:57p, Al pondered and said...

    I would like to see a specific echo for political topics.

    I agree. Political discussions often devolve into name calling and ranting, or worse.

    It seems to me that's a vote for the echo but only in that it helps to contain what many consider is unwanted behaviour here in fsxNet

    It's almost impossible to avoid politics and if people choose to follow
    or paticipate in political discussion they can do that in an area
    devoted to that and people can tune in or out as they choose.

    Much like Joe my takeaway is you would rather avoid having to engage with the political stuff in fsxNet. Let me know if I misunderstand, and thanks for the feedback :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to poindexter FORTRAN on Saturday, May 14, 2022 11:38:07
    On 09 Mar 2022 at 07:16a, poindexter FORTRAN pondered and said...

    I like the fact that FSXnet is the one stated politics-free network, for the reason I mentioned above.

    Thanks! Noted :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Nuke on Saturday, May 14, 2022 11:39:52
    On 15 Mar 2022 at 08:33p, Nuke pondered and said...

    I agree with other responses that this is a hard area to manage and
    could cause "drama". That said, we are in a very scary time and I seek
    an avenue to hear my friends on the other side of the world and how they are faring, what they are experiencing, and their insights. MRC is not fulfilling this, and hearing about "Favorite Fast Food" is not either. I

    Thanks for the comments. I hope you find echomail more rewarding than MRC.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to McDoob on Saturday, May 14, 2022 11:43:02
    On 18 Mar 2022 at 11:51a, McDoob pondered and said...

    I have waited to give my opinion on this. I am fully aware of the amount of negativity that can arise when talking about these subjects, as I am somewhat active in the POLITICS echo over on Fidonet. And this is why
    I've decided that I agree with the popular opinion that you've heard
    from many others. This is a bad idea, Paul...

    OK thanks Shaun...

    The very least problem of endorsing these conversations would be a sharp increase in your moderator work load. A potential worst-case scenario would be having members abandon this 'net, the way it has happened on Fidonet.

    Yep, thanks noted.

    I think you should stick to what you're doing right now, with the Ukraine discussion: specifically allowing a certain amount of friendly conversation, but discouraging politics and religion as a general rule.

    Perhaps an echo for 'world events', as a place to discuss these things. But certainly *not* a politics echo!
    Just my opinion, of course. (^_^)

    Coolio thanks for this feedback. yeah the word events / news aspect seems to flow in the general echo from time to time and as you say it's the degree it veers into full on political debate that needs some moderation at times. Not sure about the merits of a 'news/events' echo. Be interested to hear from others on that one.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Gamgee on Saturday, May 14, 2022 11:44:27
    On 18 Mar 2022 at 07:25p, Gamgee pondered and said...

    Fidonet. And this is why I've decided that I agree with the
    popular opinion that you've heard from many others. This is a bad idea, Paul...

    I agree with this. Politics is a bad idea, even in it's own echo.

    Thanks Dan, noted.

    I don't think there is any actual difference between "world events" and "politics". Such an echo would be EXACTLY the same as having an echo
    for politics, and is equally as bad of an idea.

    Yes I'm wondering that also but I guess you can talk about some stuff that is news without it being a political thing, still... as you say it can turn pear shaped quickly too.

    Thanks for your thoughts.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Nightfox on Saturday, May 14, 2022 11:45:05
    On 18 Mar 2022 at 08:54p, Nightfox pondered and said...

    Not all world events involve politics.

    I was thinking that also.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Cozmo on Saturday, May 14, 2022 11:50:36
    On 06 Apr 2022 at 05:35p, Cozmo pondered and said...

    I would rather *NOT* see politics on fsxNet. That's one of the great things about it. If people want politics go to another message network.

    Politics are poison to any FTN. It turns off too many people.

    Noted and thanks for your feedback :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Solaris on Saturday, May 14, 2022 11:57:16
    On 22 Mar 2022 at 11:29p, Solaris pondered and said...

    I have an idea

    :)

    I have been kicking around the idea for creating a politics net . What
    if I make a new net about politics and test run to see how toxic it gets
    . ill host it here and we call it something like FSXnet Politics with
    new zone number or I could call something else like 404 or 1202 politics
    . or just politicsNet ... Im willing if anybody likes that idea .

    Thanks for your creativity Solaris :) I'm thinking at the moment it's something I don't think we should pursue. Given there seems to be a few well established FTNs with echomail areas already set up for politics I'm not convinced at the moment that the need/demand from folks is there for such a thing. But I do admire your out of the box thinking :)

    Right now I'm just circling back to an older thread I started and am trying to form a view for the merits (or otherwise) of a politics echo in fsxNet. That's a tough enough task heh...

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Avon on Saturday, May 14, 2022 12:33:03
    I wonder if an echo that had a geo-political or just political f it would be a starter? If it was set up it could be a place for

    yes please. have you seen DOVEnet? every base is this bullshit.

    i login to BBSs and read echomail to have some time away from all thi crap.

    OK so that's a yes to a politics echo? But you're also saying you would avoid it if it were created? That being the case my take away from your post is you would rather not see politics flowing in fsxNet. let me know if I misunderstand.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)

    I suppose if the politics on fsxNet is limited to only the politics echo, then it is easy to avoid it, simply by not venturing into that room. If the politics doesn't spread into the other area's, both those who want to discuss politics, and those who wish to avoid it, can be satisfied fairly easily.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to Avon on Friday, May 13, 2022 19:55:00
    Avon wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Fidonet. And this is why I've decided that I agree with the
    popular opinion that you've heard from many others. This is a bad idea, Paul...

    I agree with this. Politics is a bad idea, even in it's own echo.

    Thanks Dan, noted.

    Welcome.

    I don't think there is any actual difference between "world events" and "politics". Such an echo would be EXACTLY the same as having an echo
    for politics, and is equally as bad of an idea.

    Yes I'm wondering that also but I guess you can talk about some
    stuff that is news without it being a political thing, still...
    as you say it can turn pear shaped quickly too.

    Honestly, I think it would take about 3 messages exchanged before it
    went downhill, quickly. Nearly any world event I can think of has a
    political slant to it of some kind (even if it actually shouldn't).

    Thanks for your thoughts.

    No problem, and I saw your other message to me today... I'm changing my
    ways, starting right now. Thanks.


    ... Chance makes our parents, but choice makes our friends.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Al@21:4/106 to Avon on Friday, May 13, 2022 20:35:08
    On 08 Mar 2022 at 03:57p, Al pondered and said...

    I would like to see a specific echo for political topics.

    I agree. Political discussions often devolve into name calling and
    ranting, or worse.

    It seems to me that's a vote for the echo but only in that it helps to contain what many consider is unwanted behaviour here in fsxNet

    Yes, maybe not a politics are but perhaps a "What's New / World Events" area.

    I hope that is not an invitation to disaster and that folks can discuss what is on their mind without name calling or ranting.

    It seems likely to me that the area would need moderation. Hopefully a friendly reminder would be enough.

    It's almost impossible to avoid politics and if people choose to follow
    or paticipate in political discussion they can do that in an area
    devoted to that and people can tune in or out as they choose.

    Much like Joe my takeaway is you would rather avoid having to engage with the political stuff in fsxNet. Let me know if I misunderstand, and thanks for the feedback :)

    Yes. Politics and world events are real life things that we need to discuss or we end up in a place like Russia where conspiacies and untruth prevail.

    I didn't mean to make any political statements above, just making a point. ;)

    I do sometimes get involved in political discussions. Once I have said what I needed/wanted to say I will drop the discussions that just go around in circles.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)
  • From ACMEBBS@21:4/10 to Avon on Saturday, May 14, 2022 00:44:00
    Avon wrote to Al <=-

    Much like Joe my takeaway is you would rather avoid having to engage
    with the political stuff in fsxNet. Let me know if I misunderstand, and thanks for the feedback :)

    If I crossed the line by asking how others outside the US are able to vote...I do apologize. One of the biggest regrets I have the older I get is never having traveled outside of the US...but trying to read/watch things from other countries.
    ... 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: fsxNet FTN<>QWK Gateway (21:4/10)
  • From Warpslide@21:3/110.2 to ACMEBBS on Saturday, May 14, 2022 08:36:15
    *** Quoting ACMEBBS from a message to Avon ***

    One of the biggest regrets I have the older I get is never having
    traveled outside of the US...

    Not sure where you are in the US, but if you can, travel North to Canada.

    If you can, try and visit Montreal and Quebec city, they feel very european whereas downtown Vancouver is certain areas feels like a major metropolitan asian city with a lot Canadian businesses having prominent Chinese signage
    out front. It was interesting to see the sign for Scotiabank (The Bank of Nova Scotia) in downtown vancounter has a very large sign in Chinese and the "normal" English sign was smaller and under the prominent one.


    Jay

    ... I'm afraid to die. I just don't want to be there when it happens

    --- Telegard v3.09.g2-sp4/mL
    * Origin: Northern Realms/TG (21:3/110.2)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to boraxman on Sunday, May 15, 2022 11:30:31
    On 14 May 2022 at 12:33p, boraxman pondered and said...

    OK so that's a yes to a politics echo? But you're also saying you wou avoid it if it were created? That being the case my take away from yo post is you would rather not see politics flowing in fsxNet. let me k if I misunderstand.

    I suppose if the politics on fsxNet is limited to only the politics
    echo, then it is easy to avoid it, simply by not venturing into that
    room. If the politics doesn't spread into the other area's, both those who want to discuss politics, and those who wish to avoid it, can be satisfied fairly easily.

    OK thanks, yeah I don't think any echo is totally immune to politics but I understand what you're saying. Thanks :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Gamgee on Sunday, May 15, 2022 11:34:23
    On 13 May 2022 at 07:55p, Gamgee pondered and said...

    I don't think there is any actual difference between "world events" a "politics". Such an echo would be EXACTLY the same as having an echo for politics, and is equally as bad of an idea.

    Yes I'm wondering that also but I guess you can talk about some
    stuff that is news without it being a political thing, still...
    as you say it can turn pear shaped quickly too.

    Honestly, I think it would take about 3 messages exchanged before it
    went downhill, quickly. Nearly any world event I can think of has a political slant to it of some kind (even if it actually shouldn't).

    Yeah I can see how that may happen also, yet, I don't want the network to be devoid of anything happening globally as that equally seems a somewhat futile thing to try and abstain from and probably one of the more interesting things that could be discussed.

    So it's trying to find a way to divorce (as best as able, if at all) political points of view from events taking place... and to that end I also agree that's a tall order to do in a way that participants can agree on equity in that space.

    Thanks for your thoughts.

    No problem, and I saw your other message to me today... I'm changing my ways, starting right now. Thanks.

    Thank you.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Al on Sunday, May 15, 2022 11:45:24
    On 13 May 2022 at 08:35p, Al pondered and said...

    I agree. Political discussions often devolve into name calling and
    ranting, or worse.
    It seems to me that's a vote for the echo but only in that it helps to contain what many consider is unwanted behaviour here in fsxNet

    Yes, maybe not a politics are but perhaps a "What's New / World Events" area.
    I hope that is not an invitation to disaster and that folks can discuss what is on their mind without name calling or ranting.
    It seems likely to me that the area would need moderation. Hopefully a friendly reminder would be enough.

    I'd just replied to Dan about this also... it's rough not to discuss global stuff just because politics is involved in driving some of it. I think it's how best to frame such discussions and place any agreed online code of conduct. I guess in fsxNet terms that's the current 'values' printed on the .txt file in the infopack etc...

    I'm not sure I have the energy at present to develop such things further and/or the desire to spend more time in moderation, so the appeals of discussing the latest events in Ukraine without it turning into a pro or anti Russia vs west ideological debate with entrenched sides lobbying the equivalent of verbal grenades at each other, are somewhat diminished by such prospects.

    It's interesting I just started to look at code of conduct text examples for online communities. Some of the examples are pretty thorough in what they cover off as acceptable or not. But I also think how far does an online community manager/ZC etc. need to go in that direction? Then again if we could rely on folks to be 'adult' about such things they would not be needed to be called on when transgressions occurred and someone in a mod role needed something to refer to..

    The joys of it all eh? :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to ACMEBBS on Sunday, May 15, 2022 11:50:32
    On 14 May 2022 at 12:44a, ACMEBBS pondered and said...

    Much like Joe my takeaway is you would rather avoid having to engage with the political stuff in fsxNet. Let me know if I misunderstand, a thanks for the feedback :)

    If I crossed the line by asking how others outside the US are able to vote...I do apologize. One of the biggest regrets I have the older I get is never having traveled outside of the US...but trying to read/watch things from other countries.

    Nah it's fine, I'm seeking to avoid major heated debates about this ideological view vs another or which leader is better or worse than another etc. You're question line is simply seeking to understand by asking questions, it's when it devolves into more of what I have alluded to that's when I think we're more in trouble as an online community.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to Avon on Saturday, May 14, 2022 19:31:00
    Avon wrote to Gamgee <=-

    I don't think there is any actual difference between "world events" a "politics". Such an echo would be EXACTLY the same as having an echo for politics, and is equally as bad of an idea.

    Yes I'm wondering that also but I guess you can talk about some
    stuff that is news without it being a political thing, still...
    as you say it can turn pear shaped quickly too.

    Honestly, I think it would take about 3 messages exchanged before it
    went downhill, quickly. Nearly any world event I can think of has a political slant to it of some kind (even if it actually shouldn't).

    Yeah I can see how that may happen also, yet, I don't want the
    network to be devoid of anything happening globally as that
    equally seems a somewhat futile thing to try and abstain from and
    probably one of the more interesting things that could be
    discussed.

    Good point. Probably the only way to really know about this issue is to
    give it a try. Good idea to let everybody know right up front what the
    rules are and if it becomes too much to deal with, stop/remove the echo.

    So it's trying to find a way to divorce (as best as able, if at
    all) political points of view from events taking place... and to
    that end I also agree that's a tall order to do in a way that
    participants can agree on equity in that space.

    Yes, and I'd also worry that moderation of "borderline" things would
    become a burden on you, or on such moderators that you might designate. Again, probably only one way to find out... ;-)


    ... Be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slower to become angry.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to Avon on Saturday, May 14, 2022 19:49:00
    Avon wrote to Al <=-

    I'm not sure I have the energy at present to develop such things
    further and/or the desire to spend more time in moderation, so
    the appeals of discussing the latest events in Ukraine without it
    turning into a pro or anti Russia vs west ideological debate with entrenched sides lobbying the equivalent of verbal grenades at
    each other, are somewhat diminished by such prospects.

    It's interesting I just started to look at code of conduct text
    examples for online communities. Some of the examples are pretty
    thorough in what they cover off as acceptable or not. But I also
    think how far does an online community manager/ZC etc. need to go
    in that direction? Then again if we could rely on folks to be
    'adult' about such things they would not be needed to be called
    on when transgressions occurred and someone in a mod role needed
    something to refer to..

    The joys of it all eh? :)

    Look at it this way - it's a sign that FSX is growing and thriving!
    It's much harder to manage New York City than it is Podunk, Iowa. ;-)



    ... Bug free, cheap, on time, works. Pick two.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to ACMEBBS on Sunday, May 15, 2022 13:05:00
    If I crossed the line by asking how others outside the US are able to vote...I do apologize. One of the biggest regrets I have the older
    I get is never having traveled outside of the US...but trying to read/watch things from other countries.

    I do believe you're all good there. If anyone is to blame, that'd be me, I started it. However I'm enjoying the way its progressed, its really an overview rather than anyone getting a bee in their bonnet over anything.

    Spec


    *** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
    --- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
    * Origin: A camel is a horse designed by a committee. (21:3/101)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Gamgee on Sunday, May 15, 2022 14:33:46
    Good point. Probably the only way to really know about this issue is to give it a try. Good idea to let everybody know right up front what the rules are and if it becomes too much to deal with, stop/remove the echo.


    Perhaps this is the best option. Create the echo, see how it goes, and if it is a dumpster fire, just remove it.

    We could speculate until the cows come home, but only observation of reality will settle the matter. I suppose if Avon doesn't have an issue removing an echo, it can't hurt to try. If the decision can be "undone" easily, then is it really such a big deal?

    The more I think about it, the more I think it would be good to be able to talk to other adults online about things OTHER than technology or what we are consuming. There is a #philosophy IRC channel that I am often in, and it is usually interesting and a political forum I am occasionally remains civil because the people are civil.

    I'm happy to see a politics echo go if it is just a cesspit, but name calling and bickering happens in General as well, so expecting it not to happen at all is perhaps unrealistic.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From ACMEBBS@21:4/10 to Warpslide on Sunday, May 15, 2022 00:20:00
    Warpslide wrote to ACMEBBS <=-

    *** Quoting ACMEBBS from a message to Avon ***

    One of the biggest regrets I have the older I get is never having
    traveled outside of the US...

    Not sure where you are in the US, but if you can, travel North to
    Canada.

    Live in Oregon about 80 miles south of Portland...between Corvallis & Eugene on I-5.

    If you can, try and visit Montreal and Quebec city, they feel very european

    Seen that in documentaries. Would love to visit Parlament in Ottawa to see the archtecture in person.

    whereas downtown Vancouver is certain areas feels like a major
    metropolitan asian city with a lot Canadian businesses having prominent Chinese signage out front. It was interesting to see the sign for Scotiabank (The Bank of Nova Scotia) in downtown vancounter has a very large sign in Chinese and the "normal" English sign was smaller and
    under the prominent one.

    Hope that once things slow down Covid-wise to be able to catch the train from here or do a tour bus at least to Vancouver.


    ... Direct from the Ministry of Silly Walks
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: fsxNet FTN<>QWK Gateway (21:4/10)
  • From ACMEBBS@21:4/10 to Avon on Sunday, May 15, 2022 00:45:00
    Avon wrote to ACMEBBS <=-

    On 14 May 2022 at 12:44a, ACMEBBS pondered and said...

    Much like Joe my takeaway is you would rather avoid having to engage with the political stuff in fsxNet. Let me know if I misunderstand, a thanks for the feedback :)

    If I crossed the line by asking how others outside the US are able to vote...I do apologize. One of the biggest regrets I have the older I get is never having traveled outside of the US...but trying to read/watch things from other countries.

    Nah it's fine, I'm seeking to avoid major heated debates about this ideological view vs another or which leader is better or worse than another etc. You're question line is simply seeking to understand by asking questions, it's when it devolves into more of what I have
    alluded to that's when I think we're more in trouble as an online community.

    Hate that as well. One of the things I hate working in retail is having to deal with those with opinions I don't agree with (Karen-type folks). One of the things I have 3D printed is a coin I call a "Karen" coin. Many of the folks I hand them out to start laughing/smiling. Says it makes their day.

    One great thing is working in recieving in retail...certainly don't missing getting screamed at. Instead of being terrified of going to work...my managers leave me alone and let me get my job done. Can say it's one of the best situations I've been in in a long time. Not having to deal with it here...makes things go so much better.
    ... Got my tie caught in the fax... Suddenly I was in L.A.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: fsxNet FTN<>QWK Gateway (21:4/10)
  • From ACMEBBS@21:4/10 to Spectre on Sunday, May 15, 2022 00:49:00
    Spectre wrote to ACMEBBS <=-

    If I crossed the line by asking how others outside the US are able to vote...I do apologize. One of the biggest regrets I have the older
    I get is never having traveled outside of the US...but trying to read/watch things from other countries.

    I do believe you're all good there. If anyone is to blame, that'd be
    me, I started it. However I'm enjoying the way its progressed, its
    really an overview rather than anyone getting a bee in their bonnet
    over anything.

    No problem at all! Having worked as a cashier in retail...used to be terrified having to deal with Karen's at least on a daily basis. Working in receiving now...days are a breeze to get through. As a co-worker said to me this evening...smile. Said I am always smiling vertically. Glad he wasn't wearing dentures or they would've fell out. ;) Things like this is how my days go now. ... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: fsxNet FTN<>QWK Gateway (21:4/10)
  • From claw@21:1/210 to Avon on Sunday, May 15, 2022 12:36:18
    On 15 May 2022, Avon said the following...
    Yeah I can see how that may happen also, yet, I don't want the network
    to be devoid of anything happening globally as that equally seems a somewhat futile thing to try and abstain from and probably one of the
    more interesting things that could be discussed.

    So it's trying to find a way to divorce (as best as able, if at all) political points of view from events taking place... and to that end I also agree that's a tall order to do in a way that participants can
    agree on equity in that space.

    Thank you.

    I know I'm new to the network but will add my idea. Possibly instead of a political forum make a world event forum that is marked as non-political. I get there is no way to avoid politics these days. If we encourage an openness to the communication and all the sysops keep an eye out for trolling we should be able to have a decent place to have communications about world events, without the hate that surrounds politics.

    |23|04Dr|16|12Claw
    |16|14Sysop |12Noverdu |14BBS |04(|14Noverdu.com|04)
    |10Standard Ports for SSH/Telnet Web/HTTP://|14Noverdu.com:808
    |20|15fsxNet/MRC Chat/Registered Doors!/50Nodes/No Time Use! Stay On!|16|07

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Noverdu BBS (21:1/210)
  • From fang-castro@21:3/112 to Avon on Monday, May 16, 2022 19:21:19
    On 14 May 2022, Avon said the following...

    On 05 Mar 2022 at 06:21p, fang-castro pondered and said...

    I wonder if an echo that had a geo-political or just political f it would be a starter? If it was set up it could be a place for

    yes please. have you seen DOVEnet? every base is this bullshit.

    i login to BBSs and read echomail to have some time away from all thi crap.

    OK so that's a yes to a politics echo? But you're also saying you would avoid it if it were created? That being the case my take away from your post is you would rather not see politics flowing in fsxNet. let me know if I misunderstand.

    I think funneling it [politics] to one message area is a great I idea! Maybe there would be some exceptions... i.e. laws about cars in the transportation echo. Or if that's a hassle/too grey of an area, send it all to politics! =)

    I haven't had time recently to read many echos because my new job has me working 6-7 days/week, 8-12 hours/day =p so I'm not aware of what has transpired since you originally posted this question.

    -- regardless, have a good one!
    -- fang

    |04--- |08Three words that describe my work ethic: Lazy.

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