Tech question so maybe general isn't the right base...

Just stumbled into Gemini Protocol and as an alternate to HTTP and the internet we're currently using.
Krystal as a Client or Lagrange...

Anyone have any thoughts on this to share? Is this a good project?

Thanks,

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][ queencitybbs.ddns.net:607 ][

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Queen City BBS (21:1/154)

n2qfd wrote to All <=-

Just stumbled into Gemini Protocol and as an alternate to HTTP and
the internet we're currently using.
Krystal as a Client or Lagrange...

Anyone have any thoughts on this to share? Is this a good project?

I think it's interesting, the markup language is easier than Gopher, but
I'm hard-pressed to figure out why I wouldn't just use HTML and skip on
the javascript or any of the cruft that made web pages huge. *maybe*
some basic CSS to provide some consistency in appearance. I already know
HTML, it renders in any browser, and you can still keep it smol, run it
in a tiny web server, and keep with the spirit of things.

Not having it indexed by web crawlers is one benefit of Gemini, you'd
want to have a pretty restrictive robots.txt, for what it's worth, on
your smol html site.



... Knock-Knock jokes are illegal in Poland.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Re: Re: Gemini protocol
By: poindexter FORTRAN to n2qfd on Tue Apr 09 2024 06:51 am

the markup language is easier than Gopher

Techically, gopher doesn't have a markup language. Type 0 is plain text
and type 1 is a directory in TSV format. Geomyidea is a gopher server
that supports gophers: (SSL) protocol plus a "convenience" markup for
hand writing type 1 directories.

I'm hard-pressed to figure out why I wouldn't just use HTML and skip on
the javascript or any of the cruft that made web pages huge. *maybe*

The browser scene is compromised by corporate interest, all the way down to
the standards bodies. All mainstream browsers push telemetry, HTTPS-only,
and bloat such as WebGL. Those who don't support this bloat are considered obsolete. Many indie sites use clownflare for DoS protection, and this
injects JS dependencies.

Even contrarian sites like archive.org have gone HTTPS-only and JS-only.

Part of the allure of smolnet protocols for me is not the technical
stuff but the culture/philosophy behind them. They do a better job
of following RFC8890.

By the way, gopher and gemini are crawled. Here's a web-based(!)
search engine that gives results for both at the same time.

https://gopher.emacs.ch/

One thing i dislike about gemini is that it is SSL-only. I have not
been able to find SSL clients that run on 16-bit hardware. I do not
need to protect my weather forecast from a MiTM attack. I hope never
to do any anarchy, banking, or buying on the smol Outernet, so i am
comfortable treating it like HAM radio: no encryption.

For others who feel the same, there is a proxy to view gemini content
in gopher clients:

gopher://cosmarmot.space/1/
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
* Origin: The Fool's Quarter, fqbbs.synchro.net (21:1/149)

I was thinking that too.

HTML, it renders in any browser, and you can still keep it smol, run it

Why not just show a little restraint? But I suppose if you're trying to make a shadow internet that is not being dictated to you by the dept of bean counting... maybe?
I can only give this anecdote: Once upon a time I worked for the Corning Museum of Glass in the Exhibits staff. cmog.org and it's a corporate museum for Corning Incorporated. So, I was young and just out of school and didn't understand that it's the money that talks. I can remember thinking, wow here I am at a world class museum and I'm in my first exhibits meeting with the curatorial staff. Published PhD's some of them... they were handed their exhibit schedule from the business office... Corning Inc was in business and so was the museum. It wasn't about what the curators wanted to show, it was what the front office thought would bring in people and they would sell tickets around.
So, how often are we interacting with websites that have bloated parameters dictated to them, or are we as content creators in a arms race for the shiny?

Money talks right, nothing .gmi will be taking the world of commerce by storm any more than Mastodon has overtaken the "hellscape" of X (Twitter) and I think Tumblr must be some sort of joke waiting for a punchline!

It seems fun enough to play with though, I mean I have a BBS live on my bookshelf too!

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][ queencitybbs.ddns.net:607 ][

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Queen City BBS (21:1/154)

Money talks right, nothing .gmi will be taking the
world of commerce by storm any more than Mastodon has
overtaken the "hellscape" of X (Twitter) and I think
Tumblr must be some sort of joke waiting for a punchline!

Hard to disagree with a truth like 'money talks'! That's a reality.

Wanted to jump in at the mention of Mastodon to say how great my experience using Mastodon has been, similarly I have found Lemmy to be great too. While I may have put more hours into doom-scrolling Twitter in the past, I've found Mastodon to have higher quality posts.

Likewise for Lemmy - I started using it last year after years of using reddit less and less - the content on Lemmy has been really enjoyable. I check into reddit still, and while reddit has more users I find the quality on Lemmy to be far higher most of the time.

I'm realizing that I don't really want to spend my time on a platform with EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD, I want to spend my time with groups of people with similar interests or other characteristics. Too much reach is actually a negative - too much noise comes along with it. I'm not an advertiser, so maximizing the number of eyeballs isn't a priority. Eyeballs don't equal interesting discussion. I suppose here in the BBS world this sounds like preaching to the choir! I enjoy the rant! :)


Chris/akacastor

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

I'm hip Chris,

There was this study Dunbar's Number https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number that said we've got a limit.

I was in Yeshiva and worked briefly as a clergyman, so this sort of thinking was important to us. If I can only have about 100-150 individuals who I can maintain a real connection with how does that affect the congregation and our need to have extra clergy.
I think it translates to BBS or any other small but dedicated social interaction circle. I'd just rather be around people who can be part of a discussion, not just like what I like but are just civil and here for honest interaction. I've got nothing to gain apart from ego and that does run away from everyone once in an while but generally it's just nice to be with other folks who have put in the meaningful effort to be in this space together.
Congregations need not be religious, or political, but as wild as it sounds just comparing notes on how life is going. I haven't figured out if it's an age related thing or not yet. I think some of that steers the medium. I think most of us had some interaction with electronics, radio or BBS in the past and we're coming back around to this thing. There are bound to be people who are new to the medium too. But we've committed to a shared space and format and for the right sort of individual this is it.
My 2 cents anyhow! Still can't believe there were people who called me rabbi...

Mal

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][ queencitybbs.ddns.net:607 ][

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Queen City BBS (21:1/154)

Mal,
I like Your post.
I became interested in computer things in the 1970's listening to a QSO (conversation) on a 2 meter repeater of a HAM who owned a TRS-80 Model One asking a fellow who worked with Main Frame Computers, how to do something on his Trash80 PC.

I found I could understand the topic and began thinking of owning one for myself.
(Back then I subscribed to Popular Electronics and Radio-Electronics magazines and was already interested knowing friends who owned Apple][ and PET PC's) Finally decided on the C=64 for myself.

Another Ham told me of a Commodore dial-up BBS and I signed up to use it. Later, a free monthly newsletter had telephone numbers for PC, Apple and Atari BBS's.
I signed up on a PC BBS so I could learn some about DOS BASIC and Win 3.1 .
I like hearing what folks who have years of experience doing things that I get interested in knowing about, to tell me their experiences.
.
Ed W9ODR . .
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (21:1/175)

Re: Re: Gemini protocol
By: n2qfd to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Apr 09 2024 03:41 pm

The core competencies of the marketplace do not speak to the best things
in life such as peace, love, unity, and respect. OTOH, i suppose those
who work in glass museums shouldn't cast aspersions at their source.
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
* Origin: The Fool's Quarter, fqbbs.synchro.net (21:1/149)

On 10 Apr 2024, Ben Collver said the following...

Re: Re: Gemini protocol
By: n2qfd to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Apr 09 2024 03:41 pm

The core competencies of the marketplace do not speak to the best things in life such as peace, love, unity, and respect. OTOH, i suppose those who work in glass museums shouldn't cast aspersions at their source.

why do you post like this? it's obvious you know how to quote because you put the relatively useless part in but not the actual quote.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (21:1/616)

That's the best part of this thing isn't it Ed? I don't think we ever stopped being a creature that sat around the fire and told and listened to stories.
Something I'm playing with this past few days is Gemini. I have orbited around the Small Internet now for a little while and that's part of why I came back to BBSing. But I also just like playing with this stuff. We grew up with Popular Science, Popular Mechanics, 73's, QST and CQ and it's just fun to make things. At some point the lego's became electronics for me too, or maybe that's just the grown up me playing lego and my castle is a BBS on a Raspberry Pi!
Gemini is a protocol that came about some years ago as an answer to http bloat and an Internet some of us were not finding palatable anymore. It's text, it's simple to make a page (capsule) and some say a child of gopher. I think there's only a million pages (capsules) to date so it's not that robust and there's the usual hurdles. It requires it's own browser. But it has a super light footprint and would make a great parallel to http so there would always be a slim functional text version of every site out there.
When I was a student in Prague in 2000 we were still using text browsers at university. I'd have loved to see this format instead of dealing with Yahoo through a text browser...
So, legos... I actually make a living in and around civil engineering and that means it stays a hobby and all in good fun.

best 73 to you too,

Mal

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][ de N2QFD ][
][ Queen City BBS ][
][ queencitybbs.ddns.net:607 ][

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Queen City BBS (21:1/154)

The core competencies of the marketplace do not speak to the best things in life such as peace, love, unity, and respect. OTOH, i suppose those who work in glass museums shouldn't cast aspersions at their source.

Funny you should say that....
My spouse went on to a masters in museum studies and I worked in exhibits a little longer but eventually went back to retrain in trades and have worked in and around civil engineering since... Money talks, museums just couldn't keep two of us employed full time sufficiently. I worked in the mountains for some time, then on pipelines in the energy sector for a good chunk. These days the civil engineering has been more focused towards municipal work though I never became an engineer, only a technician. Engineers need heroes too.

N2QFD

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--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Queen City BBS (21:1/154)

Re: Re: Gemini protocol
By: fusion to Ben Collver on Wed Apr 10 2024 12:22 pm

I just press the 'A' key in the BBS menu to answer the message, and it
opens an empty editor buffer with nothing to quote. Anything quoted
must have been added by the BBS software after i saved my message.
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
* Origin: The Fool's Quarter, fqbbs.synchro.net (21:1/149)

There was this study Dunbar's Number https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number that
said we've got a limit.

Interesting there's research into this idea, the concept pretty well describes my personal observations too.

I was in Yeshiva and worked briefly as a clergyman, so
this sort of thinking was important to us. If I can only
have about 100-150 individuals who I can maintain a real
connection with how does that affect the congregation
and our need to have extra clergy.

I can see how that's an important place to tune into these kinds of ideas.

I think it translates to BBS or any other small but dedicated social interaction circle. I'd just rather be around people who
can be part of a discussion, not just like what I like
but are just civil and here for honest interaction. I've
got nothing to gain apart from ego and that does run
away from everyone once in an while but generally it's
just nice to be with other folks who have put in the
meaningful effort to be in this space together.

100% this. I don't think it's really possible to have a discussion with millions of people involved. Better to have many smaller-scale discussions with honest interaction.

Congregations need not be religious, or political, but as wild as it sounds just comparing notes on how life is going.

I get this. I grew up in a small town and just 'getting together' seemed like the real strength of local congretations.

I haven't figured out if it's an age related thing or not
yet. I think some of that steers the medium. I think
most of us had some interaction with electronics, radio
or BBS in the past and we're coming back around to this
thing. There are bound to be people who are new to the
medium too. But we've committed to a shared space and
format and for the right sort of individual this is it.

Agreed. From my experience getting back into BBSing, almost all of us were involved in BBSes in the past and most have a technical background. Not too surprising considering even in the 90s BBS users tended to be technical and this is a much smaller niche these days.

That said - I have seen new people too, there's definitely a number of people in their 20s (and younger?) with an interest in retro computing, and/or interest in alternative varieties of social media. In BBS message bases they may be a minority but their existence is real! :)

I see a lot of similarity between BBSes and social media, aside from the messaging/chat aspect, each BBS has a unique atmosphere and style based on the sysop's preferences and what they want to present to the world. Before Instagram and Facebook and Myspace and before Geocities, people were building BBSes as places to congregate and share their personality. On this topic - I have a book on my desk I haven't read yet, "The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media" by Kevin Driscoll, I suspect I will read a more cogent opinion on the topic there.

I'm curious what else the Fediverse will bring to us, I know there is more to it than just Mastodon and Lemmy but I haven't looked into any other services. I was surprised how quickly I took to both Mastodon and Lemmy, it took almost no time at all for me to find my whole experience got undeniably better than Twitter and Reddit had been. I'll still search Reddit for information someone may have posted, but I go to Lemmy for the conversation.


Chris/akacastor

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

Hello AKAcastor!

On this topic - I have a book on my desk I haven't read
yet, "The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media" by
Kevin Driscoll, I suspect I will read a more cogent opinion
on the topic there.

That's a great chronological journey of "online" communities,
and more!

I'm curious what else the Fediverse will bring to us, I
know there is more to it than just Mastodon and Lemmy but I
haven't looked into any other services. I was surprised
how quickly I took to both Mastodon and Lemmy, it took
almost no time at all for me to find my whole experience
got undeniably better than Twitter and Reddit had been.
I'll still search Reddit for information someone may have
posted, but I go to Lemmy for the conversation.

I never heard of Lemmy. I thought "the conversation" is on
FTN's! :D

Mastadon is too bloated in my opinion.

Element is as far I would take the federated experience.

--- OpenXP 5.0.58
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)

I never heard of Lemmy. I thought "the conversation" is on
FTN's! :D

I have actually been more active in conversation on fsxNet than Lemmy, but really they pair well together IMO! :)

Mastadon is too bloated in my opinion.

I had (grudgingly) gotten on Twitter and built a nice list of people to follow (and as importantly, a giant block list), and then many people bailed for Mastodon at the same time I was done with Twitter, so I was able to start off with a pretty good feed of posts when I joined Mastodon. And basically since I was leaving Twitter, Mastodon being loaded with similar functionality seemed reasonable enough.

Element is as far I would take the federated experience.

I haven't used Element, it looks like it is for one on one communication, or group messaging with contacts? Looks nice, will have to learn more about it. Cool to see, and compare, these different styles of communication systems.


Chris/akacastor

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

I have actually been more active in conversation on fsxNet than Lemmy,
but really they pair well together IMO! :)

Lemmy?

bailed for Mastodon at the same time I was done with Twitter, so I was

Another one I havent heard about.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Clutch BBS * telnet://clutchbbs.com (21:1/199)

I have actually been more active in conversation on fsxNet than Lemmy but really they pair well together IMO! :)

Lemmy?

Lemmy is an open-source Reddit-like platform. It is awesome. Self-hosted, but connect with other Lemmy instances... really cool.



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
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--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

I have actually been more active in conversation on fsxNet than Lemmy,
but really they pair well together IMO! :)

Lemmy?

Lemmy is part of "the fediverse", a collection of social networking servers which can communicate with each other, while remaining independently controlled.

The niche Lemmy fills is similar to Reddit or web forums. Posts are separated into categories and you can subscribe to the categories of your choice.
On Lemmy you follow or browse based on categories/topics.

bailed for Mastodon at the same time I was done with Twitter, so I was

Another one I havent heard about.

Mastodon is also part of the fediverse, with a similar type of social media interface to Twitter. You can follow accounts and see posts from them in a timeline, and boost (retweet), etc.

On Mastodon you follow based on people/accounts.

Because of the open nature of the fediverse, there are different options for servers to create accounts on (or setup your own server), and different software/UI options (web interfaces, apps). So your experience can vary a lot depending on what direction you choose.


An example of a post I made on Mastodon: https://mastodon.social/@akacastor/112249401970309556

A post I made on Lemmy:
https://lemmy.world/post/14144651


Chris/akacastor

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

Lemmy is an open-source Reddit-like platform. It is awesome.
Self-hosted, but connect with other Lemmy instances... really cool.

You got me down a rabbit hole yesterday evening. :)

... Radioactive cats have 18 half-lives

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Clutch BBS * telnet://clutchbbs.com (21:1/199)

Lemmy?

Dead guy (RIP).... used to sing for Motorhead! :)

I think of that every time I see Lemmy..

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: Good Luck and drive offensively! (21:3/101)

I have to admit I do too,

What Would Lemmy Do...

That's one I haven't tried but I am staring to play with Gemini and it's been nice seeing this conversation stirring here.

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][ de N2QFD ][
][ Queen City BBS ][
][ queencitybbs.ddns.net:607 ][

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Queen City BBS (21:1/154)

Did you see Bohemian Rhapsody Chris?
There was an element of Freddy Mercury that I think they tried to play up in that Queen was a band for all the folks who were standing around the walls and at the back of the other concerts.
I find there's a lot of that in this new federated space we're all exploring together. It was different when I was a teen and maybe more applicable as that's the age one feel the wallflower I suppose. Well, we grew up but didn't forget it and I think there's some honest ability to craft the space we want and as you pointed out there's a new generation who are getting a taste of this too.
I've been playing with Gemini this week and started a page (capsule) for the BBS for a learning exercise. There's this nice Welsh fellow Wil who's got a server called Capsule.Town hosting and he spelled out some how too's really nicely. https://wilw.dev/ and his capsule gemini://wilw.capsule.town
I think people are quick to write off the experiments in parallels to Big Internet but I'm not convinced that Smol Internet is a fad either. And there's something really nice about ending up here, looking around and seeing that you're not the only one. That was perhaps the best part of the BBS thing when I was a teen in a small town in the 90's. It's hard to explain to younger folks that the only streaming audio was FM radio and what a drunken bender the Napster days were because we just didn't have anything like that and took absolute advantage of it. I was lucky to have folks who embraced diversity in a rather insular area. I saw Akira in Japanese because my dad had a friend in Taiwan and mailed a VHS. Heck I had parents willing to shell out to get a VHF unit (mostly my mom who loved mini series like the Thornbirds and wasn't missing it because she was a nurse and worked late hours) because they loved technology. My parents were admonished, told they ruined my future by my grade school teachers because I knew my alphabet in Kindergarten as we had an early PC (an Interact and later a TI-99) and I learned the keyboard! Destroyed my chances at a quality education! Things were different, and often you felt the freak for not fitting in and the BBS's let us look over the valley walls and be reassured, there was indeed a larger world out there.

Mal/N2QFD

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][ de N2QFD ][
][ Queen City BBS ][
][ queencitybbs.ddns.net:607 ][

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Queen City BBS (21:1/154)

Lemmy is part of "the fediverse", a collection of social networking servers which can communicate with each other, while remaining independently controlled.

I really like Lemmy - both that its a Reddit competitor, and that it can be community based or federated to the larger Lemmy community. I had thought about standing a lemmy server when Reddit started being arseholes about their API.

In fact, did the 3rd party reddit clients get taken down (or charged 2M dollars to exist...) like Reddit said they were gonna do?? I think so.



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

Lemmy is an open-source Reddit-like platform. It is awesome. Self-hosted, but connect with other Lemmy instances... really cool.

You got me down a rabbit hole yesterday evening. :)

Yea - I think I was on Beehaw and then the main lemmy community. I still have an account, but still use reddit so...



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

Yea - I think I was on Beehaw and then the main lemmy community. I still have an account, but still use reddit so...

Ultimately after some review, that's where I'm sticking.

... I put a dollar in one of those change machines. Nothing changed.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Clutch BBS * telnet://clutchbbs.com (21:1/199)

Hello AKAcastor!

** On Wednesday 10.04.24 - 17:28, AKAcastor wrote to Ogg:

I have actually been more active in conversation on fsxNet
than Lemmy, but really they pair well together IMO! :)

I checked out your sample posts on Lemmy and Mastadon. Then, I
explored the Lemmy-verse a bit. I searched for specific
"communities" and quickly felt overwhelmed with the posting
structure. I don't think there is a way to mark a message for
later replies. There's no way to even save a particilar post as
a later reference. And, of course the whole thing requires a
live internet connection at all times.

Element is as far I would take the federated experience.

I haven't used Element, it looks like it is for one on one
communication, or group messaging with contacts? Looks
nice, will have to learn more about it. Cool to see, and
compare, these different styles of communication systems.

I suppose technically, Element is one of the interfaces for the
system. The system is actually called Matrix.

I primarily use it for one-to-one secure/encrypted messaging. I
like the way it syncs between my various desktops and droid
phones. But Session seems to be even better for that.

I've never been a fan of Twitter - the posting system just
seemed cluttered with the #tag stuff and it was easy to get
side-tracked.

Element/Matrix has also been explored as a BBS-like system by a
few people. tqwNet is an example. However.. its matrix
presence seems to have died down. The last 5 posts dated Feb27
2023 to Mar8 2024 have all been "<user> left the room".

--- OpenXP 5.0.58
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)

Lemmy?

Dead guy (RIP).... used to sing for Motorhead! :)

I think of that every time I see Lemmy..

Me, too! ;)



--- Talisman v0.53-dev (Linux/armv7l)
* Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * telnet:24/ssh:2122/ftelnet:80 (21:4/134)

Ben Collver wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

The browser scene is compromised by corporate interest, all the way
down to the standards bodies. All mainstream browsers push telemetry, HTTPS-only, and bloat such as WebGL. Those who don't support this
bloat are considered obsolete. Many indie sites use clownflare for DoS protection, and this injects JS dependencies.

Point taken. I hadn't thought of that. We could resurrect an old
browser, but that would introduce security issues and remove the
benefit of being able to use one more browser.

I did play with Gemini a while ago, found a nice way to get bashblog to
create a gemini version of my blog at gemini://tilde.club/~poindexter.




... Most deaths on Mount Everest are caused by goats.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Did you see Bohemian Rhapsody Chris?
There was an element of Freddy Mercury that I think
they tried to play up in that Queen was a band for all
the folks who were standing around the walls and at the
back of the other concerts.

Since you brought it up, now I'll have to watch it again, enjoyed that movie!

I find there's a lot of that in this new federated
space we're all exploring together. It was different
when I was a teen and maybe more applicable as that's
the age one feel the wallflower I suppose. Well, we grew
up but didn't forget it and I think there's some honest
ability to craft the space we want and as you pointed
out there's a new generation who are getting a taste of
this too.

One of the things I appreciate about the Fediverse is that there's a feeling of people coming together to try to build something that can be better, and to create more options for people to choose how they experience the network. It's nice to not feel all alone in the quest for a satisfying community experience.

I've been playing with Gemini this week and started a
page (capsule) for the BBS for a learning exercise.
There's this nice Welsh fellow Wil who's got a server
called Capsule.Town hosting and he spelled out some how
too's really nicely. https://wilw.dev/ and his capsule gemini://wilw.capsule.town

Haven't had a chance to check out Gemini yet, but am going to remember these links as it is always so nice to have some how-to's when getting started.

I think people are quick to write off the experiments in parallels to Big Internet but I'm not convinced that Smol Internet is a fad either.

I think we're both old enough to remember when Internet was a fad altogether! Who would want to learn to use a computer and type a message when you could just make a phone call?

It's always easy to write things off as a fad that won't last, and in truth a lot of projects that we do may not last - but the ones that do last are a direct result of people spending time and energy and dedication, building a foundation, and continuing when others have lost interest.

Later on, other people see what's been built and that it works and they forget it was just a fad.

And there's something really nice about ending up here,
looking around and seeing that you're not the only one.
That was perhaps the best part of the BBS thing when I
was a teen in a small town in the 90's.

It's a great feeling to find your people!

because I knew my alphabet in Kindergarten as we had an
early PC (an Interact and later a TI-99) and I learned
the keyboard! Destroyed my chances at a quality
education! Things were different, and often you felt the
freak for not fitting in and the BBS's let us look over
the valley walls and be reassured, there was indeed a
larger world out there.

And isn't it nice now to look back on the luck of having had those opportunities, too.


Chris/akacastor

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

I really like Lemmy - both that its a Reddit competitor,
and that it can be community based or federated to the
larger Lemmy community. I had thought about standing a
lemmy server when Reddit started being arseholes about
their API.

I haven't looked into running a server, but as a user on some of the established servers it's been a great experience. Part of what makes it a great experience is knowing that I can setup my own server and connect it, if I want.

In fact, did the 3rd party reddit clients get taken down
(or charged 2M dollars to exist...) like Reddit said
they were gonna do?? I think so.

I never did use 3rd party reddit clients, but I think they pretty well got wiped out? Honestly, I'm not sure really what to make of the current state of reddit - I do visit the site and do some scrolling and clicking, but the quality is the lowest I've ever seen it. It really feels like it's been overrun with AI bots and advertising and generally anti-user design choices.

I think the enshittification is inescapable with corporate-controlled platforms. In the modern world, businesses can't operate in a way that isn't exploitative. The real problem is that we keep choosing to let them run our platforms.

Another platform that is going to hurt a lot of us when they inevitably crank up the enshittification is Discord. It's been a pretty nice user experience so far, but the clock is ticking on when they start to squeeze. Discord has become pretty ubiquitous so I expect it to happen fairly soon, little bit by little bit, until it's a lot.


Chris/akacastor

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

I checked out your sample posts on Lemmy and Mastadon. Then, I
explored the Lemmy-verse a bit. I searched for specific
"communities" and quickly felt overwhelmed with the posting
structure. I don't think there is a way to mark a message for
later replies. There's no way to even save a particilar post as
a later reference. And, of course the whole thing requires a
live internet connection at all times.

I can relate to being overwhelmed - I have had a similar experience on most of the social media platforms I've tried out. Like with other platforms, I think different people prefer to use them in different ways - typically I select who or what I want to follow and avoid any algorithmic feed of general content. On Lemmy I have changed a bit and I do typically browse the feed based on 'All' (rather than 'subscribed' or 'local'), usually sorting by 'Active' as I prefer the posts with some conversation attached. Meanwhile I am building a list of communities to subscribe to, and blocking communities and users I don't want to see content from.

I don't know if there's a way to mark a message for later replies, you do get notifications if it's your post or someone replies to you or @'s you. There's a 'star' button below each post in the Lemmy interface I use (lemmy.world's web interface), the 'star' button saves the post or message in a list that you can view in your user profile.

I haven't heard of a Lemmy system for offline use, but I haven't actually investigated any of the apps available for accessing Lemmy. It's not something I've looked into, I'm not aware of offline use of any social networks other than FTN networks, tbh, so I don't know what's out there for that.

I suppose technically, Element is one of the interfaces for the
system. The system is actually called Matrix.

I primarily use it for one-to-one secure/encrypted messaging. I
like the way it syncs between my various desktops and droid
phones. But Session seems to be even better for that.

I use Signal for some chats and it has been an alright user experience also. I also use Telegram and have found it convenient for syncing between phone and various computers.

Element/Matrix has also been explored as a BBS-like system by a
few people. tqwNet is an example. However.. its matrix
presence seems to have died down. The last 5 posts dated Feb27
2023 to Mar8 2024 have all been "<user> left the room".

It does sound like an interesting experiment, too bad it's hit a lull.


Chris/akacastor

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

Another platform that is going to hurt a lot of us when
they inevitably crank up the enshittification is
Discord. It's been a pretty nice user experience so
far, but the clock is ticking on when they start to
squeeze. Discord has become pretty ubiquitous so I
expect it to happen fairly soon, little bit by little
bit, until it's a lot.

On the topic of a Discord replacement - I just now happened to hear of Revolt, an open source chat system meant to be an alternative to Discord-style proprietary systems. https://revolt.chat/

I haven't tried it yet, but first impression from the website is positive - it looks organized and has apps for a variety of platforms (and a web interface also).


Chris/akacastor

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

[Lemmy, a reddit replacement]

I haven't looked into running a server, but as a user on some of the established servers it's been a great experience. Part of what makes it
a great experience is knowing that I can setup my own server and connect it, if I want.

What website to you lemmy from? I liked Beehaw, but not their politics - so I switched to the main one... for me, when Beehaw unfederated from a LARGE lemmy host I was upset.

I think the enshittification is inescapable with corporate-controlled platforms.

Another platform that is going to hurt a lot of us when they inevitably crank up the enshittification is Discord.

Thats what Matrix is for - I use Disco still, but do MOST of my chatting on Matrix. There is a Quantum Wormhole server you can use - matrix.erb.pw



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

What website to you lemmy from? I liked Beehaw, but not
their politics - so I switched to the main one... for
me, when Beehaw unfederated from a LARGE lemmy host I
was upset.

I use mastodon.social via the web interface, and also using the Mastodon iPhone app.

Another platform that is going to hurt a lot of us when they inevitably crank up the enshittification is Discord.

Thats what Matrix is for - I use Disco still, but do MOST of my chatting p> on Matrix. There is a Quantum Wormhole server you can use - matrix.erb.pw

I had noticed you didn't seem very active on Discord, I didn't realize Matrix is where it's at, I just thought you were stuck up! ;)

Do you always use the Element web interface, or do you 'enter the matrix' using other interfaces? I am soon going to have to actually check out Matrix after hearing about it here and there for some years now.. I just never took the time to actually take a look myself.


Chris/akacastor

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

Another platform that is going to hurt a lot of us when they inevitab crank up the enshittification is Discord.

Thats what Matrix is for - I use Disco still, but do MOST of my chatti

on Matrix. There is a Quantum Wormhole server you can use - matrix.erb.pw

I had noticed you didn't seem very active on Discord, I didn't realize Matrix is where it's at, I just thought you were stuck up! ;)

Do you always use the Element web interface, or do you 'enter the
matrix' using other interfaces? I am soon going to have to actually
check out Matrix after hearing about it here and there for some years now.. I just never took the time to actually take a look myself.

This dickhead.... :P

I use element-desktop, an application - on iOS I use element-X.

Matrix is the server. element-desktop is the client. It is the lemmy/mastodon if Discord. Quantum Wormhole runs a matrix server, at matrix.erb.pw ... there are many other communities/servers, but they are all available by using matrix.erb.pw thru federation...

Stuck up - f this mother........... :P



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

Element/Matrix has also been explored as a BBS-like system by a
few people. tqwNet is an example. However.. its matrix
presence seems to have died down. The last 5 posts dated Feb27
2023 to Mar8 2024 have all been "<user> left the room".

I wonder if you're still in the old rooms. Meatlotion lost the Matrix server and had to re-create the server and the rooms.


-- Lachlan

... There is an exception to every rule, except this one.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Linux/64)
* Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, uK. bbs.erb.pw (21:1/158)

This ____head.... :P
Stuck up - _ this mother........... :P

oops - I thought I was in a local 2oFB msg base for this reply. AKA and I rib eachother there and it was tongue in cheek. At any rate, sorry for language on fsx; I didn't realize it was an FTN post.



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

oops - I thought I was in a local 2oFB msg base for this
reply. AKA and I rib eachother there and it was tongue
in cheek. At any rate, sorry for language on fsx; I
didn't realize it was an FTN post.

I just couldn't resist throwing some bait out, caught you Paulie. ;)


Chris/akacastor

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

oops - I thought I was in a local 2oFB msg base for this
reply. AKA and I rib eachother there and it was tongue
in cheek. At any rate, sorry for language on fsx; I
didn't realize it was an FTN post.

I just couldn't resist throwing some bait out, caught you Paulie. ;)

:P Yea - and I thought we were safe in the walls of 2oFB.... lulz.

Hopefully I didn't ruffle too many feathers.



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

On 13 Apr 2024 at 10:03a, paulie420 pondered and said...

This ____head.... :P
Stuck up - _ this mother........... :P

oops - I thought I was in a local 2oFB msg base for this reply. AKA and
I rib eachother there and it was tongue in cheek. At any rate, sorry for language on fsx; I didn't realize it was an FTN post.

thanks, I was a tad surprised... but appreciate the insight.

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

This ____head.... :P
Stuck up - _ this mother........... :P

oops - I thought I was in a local 2oFB msg base for this reply. AKA a I rib eachother there and it was tongue in cheek. At any rate, sorry language on fsx; I didn't realize it was an FTN post.

thanks, I was a tad surprised... but appreciate the insight.

:P LOL - we're a tad more wild over @ 2oFB, Avon - you really gotta come over once and see the wild wild west.



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)