This was in the US News today ... I am really confused how this makes any s
"New Zealand government on Tuesday proposed taxing farm animals greenhouse g rination, which contribute to rising global temperatures."
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Re: Help me here .. I am confused ?
By: Argos to All on Wed Oct 12 2022 08:59 am
This was in the US News today ... I am really confused how this makes
"New Zealand government on Tuesday proposed taxing farm animals greenho rination, which contribute to rising global temperatures."
---
It is a political decision aimed at extracting money from farmers. It cannot spawn any conversation that is not political.
"New Zealand government on Tuesday proposed taxing farm animals
greenhouse gas emissions as part of its efforts to reduce the pollution that is causing climate change. The tax would be the worlds first on animal emissions, including those from burps and urination, which contribute to rising global temperatures."
"New Zealand government on Tuesday proposed taxing farm animals greenhouse gas emissions as part of its efforts to reduce the pollution that is causing climate change. The tax would be the worlds first on animal emissions, including those from burps and urination, which contribute to rising global temperatures."
It is a political decision aimed at extracting money from farmers. It cannot spawn any conversation that is not political.
It is a political decision aimed at extracting money from farmers. It cannot spawn any conversation that is not political.
That's patently not true.. although it may well get dragged there.
Spec
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This was in the US News today ... I am really confused how this makes
any sense? No Politics Please, against the rules! I need a rational conversation of logic.
"New Zealand government on Tuesday proposed taxing farm animals
greenhouse gas emissions as part of its efforts to reduce the pollution that is causing climate change. The tax would be the worlds first on animal emissions, including those from burps and urination, which contribute to rising global temperatures."
FL.
It is a political decision aimed at extracting money from farmers.
That's patently not true.. although it may well get dragged there.
Extracting money from a group using political mechanisms is a political decision justified with political arguments.
This was in the US News today ... I am really confused how this makes
any sense? No Politics Please, against the rules! I need a rational conversation of logic.
"New Zealand government on Tuesday proposed taxing farm animals
greenhouse gas emissions as part of its efforts to reduce the pollution that is causing climate change. The tax would be the worlds first on animal emissions, including those from burps and urination, which contribute to rising global temperatures."
It is a political decision aimed at extracting money from farme
That's patently not true.. although it may well get dragged there.
Extracting money from a group using political mechanisms is a political decision justified with political arguments.
Sure it is, but the underlying argument however misguided isn't. I see this as being more of a road to hell being paved with good intentions.
Spec
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/27/whats-the-beef-with-cows nd-the-climate-crisis
Not exactly a primary source given its a news paper but it'll do. It indicates that "farm animals" produce ~14% of human related climate emissions. In methane rather than Co2 which is far worse for the atmosphere.
So the inherent idea of doing something about it, is "green". This can be discussed with no reference to politics. In this case you've got your blinkers on by saying there is ONLY political discussion there.
Spec
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The only discussion possible here is debating whether the argument is sound or
not, which is actually a debate about whether the policy makes sense or not,
which is a political debate.
The only discussion possible here is debating whether the argument is sound or
not, which is actually a debate about whether the policy makes sense or not,
which is a political debate.
Yeah, nah.. the two may have been linked but are seperate ideas. You're telling me you can't have a discussion about organic methane production and possible reduction thereof without including politics? There is a seperate political debate about whether or not to tax it, that's a different story.
The political debate strikes me as being sheer lunacy.
Spec
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You can't have a discussion about organic methane production and a possible
reduction thereof without including politics, as long as impossing reductions
via policies is on the table. Which it clearly is.
Extracting money from a group using political mechanisms is a political decision justified with political arguments.
Claiming it is not political is a political action too - I see it often when groups try to protray themselves as non-partisan and push
political changes claiming they are not political.
Spectre wrote to Arelor <=-
Extracting money from a group using political mechanisms is a political decision justified with political arguments.
Sure it is, but the underlying argument however misguided isn't. I see this as being more of a road to hell being paved with good intentions.
Being someone who eats veggie burgers I can say this much... a grilled veggie burger raises my emissions more than a traditional beef burger. With that in mind, once they get rid of the cattle, I expect they will
be taxing us next.
#
Being someone who eats veggie burgers I can say this much... a grilled veggie burger raises my emissions more than a traditional beef burger. With that in mind, once they get rid of the cattle, I expect they will
be taxing us next.
boraxman wrote to Blue White <=-
Hehe, depends on the veggie burger. I don't like the "fake meat" at
all, with the exception of the soy based sausages. They are at least better than cheap hotdogs/frankfurters. Thats a pretty low bar though.
For me, the best veggie burgers are the ones which don't try to emulate meat. Like the "bubble and squeak" ones, potato, peas, corn. Don't try
to hide the vegetables and be a second rate meat burger, become a first rate veggie burger.
By the way, if you burn off your emissions with a match, do they pose
less of a threat environmentally?
By the way, if you burn off your emissions with a match, do they pose less of a threat environmentally?
Hmmm... that'd take a more green-minded person than I to discuss. One would think so, but there would be the smoke from the match so I don't know. :D
For me, the best veggie burgers are the ones which don't try to emulate meat. Like the "bubble and squeak" ones, potato, peas, corn. Don't try
to hide the vegetables and be a second rate meat burger, become a first rate veggie burger.
I think I tended to think that way when I wasn't vegetarian (it's been a while, though), but at this point... I like things that taste good, and some of the veggie burgers taste pretty darn good, regardless of what they're made of or what they're trying to impersonate (_if_ they're
trying to impersonate things).
But, while I can't get them in Europe (rules about GMOs forbid selling their current form), I like the Impossible Burgers, in part because it's interesting to have a burger that looks raw, but is made with beets, and is unlikely to have the dangerous forms of e. coli on it, so I feel
safer cooking them "medium rare" than I ever did with a patty made from
an animal.
But, in general, the fake-meat options have gotten pretty interesting,
in the past few years.
On the other hand, I _also_ like things like General Tso's Tofu, where I think the texture and flavor of a very firm, preferably pre-browned tofu is better than making it with chicken.
boraxman wrote to Adept <=-
I was a vegetarian for a short while, but "meat free" or "vegan"
doesn't mean healthy at all. A lot of this is fad driven.
And a hard pass on the bugs that some want us to start
eating.
Tofu is nice though, especially the browned tofu with the firm exterior and soft interior and I agree, It can be better than meat when done
right.
I was a vegetarian for a short while, but "meat free" or "vegan" doesn't mean healthy at all. A lot of this is fad driven.
On the other hand, I _also_ like things like General Tso's Tofu, wher think the texture and flavor of a very firm, preferably pre-browned t is better than making it with chicken.
I'll pass. And a hard pass on the bugs that some want us to start
eating.
*shrug*. I find this fairly irrelevant. I've been vegetarian for 8
years, I guess, and, yeah, I would not say it's healthier, other than avoiding some things like the various scary bits about how the body (and bacteria that live in the body) process red meat.
But "fad" or not, well, most of the food industry involves fads, whether meat or not.
Do you not like General Tso's? I make it at home, sometimes, and it's
all about the sauce. Which, from what I put into it, it seems to be largely about soy sauce and maple syrup.
But, yes, back when I ate meat I did try things like eating crickets (it kinda felt like eating sand, though a chocolate-covered cricket was like eating a Kit Kat.
boraxman wrote to Adept <=-
Do you not like General Tso's? I make it at home, sometimes, and it's
all about the sauce. Which, from what I put into it, it seems to be largely about soy sauce and maple syrup.
But, yes, back when I ate meat I did try things like eating crickets (it kinda felt like eating sand, though a chocolate-covered cricket was like eating a Kit Kat.
Funny you should mention that chocolate covered cricket is like
Kit Kat, I'm literally eating one right now!
A Kit Kat, or a cricket? ;-)
I'll starve to death before eating either a cricket, or tofu.
I've never had General Tso's. Not sure it is available in Australia.
Funny you should mention that chocolate covered cricket is like Kit Kat, I'm literally eating one right now!
A Kit Kat, or a cricket? ;-)
I'll starve to death before eating either a cricket, or tofu.
Amen brother!!!
I think it's an American Chinese dish. I think most Chinese places in
the US would have it, but I wouldn't state that with any certainty, as I've certainly been to plenty of places that didn't have it.
I've never had General Tso's. Not sure it is available in
Australia.
I think it's an American Chinese dish. I think most Chinese places in the US would have it, but I wouldn't state that with any certainty, as I've certainly been to plenty of places that didn't have it.
And as someone who doesn't eat meat (intentionally, anyway), if I were starving to death, I'd probably kill something and eat it, if it were an option.
But people seem _really_ attached to meat eating, for some reason. So, odd.
(Incidentally, just to add to the oddness, I like
butchering. So, while I won't eat it, I'll take a chicken
or turkey apart because it's like a reverse puzzle.)
Adept wrote to neckbeard <=-
Amen brother!!!
I find this mindset _odd_.
Both because, when I ate meat, I liked _trying_ things. Did I
like crickets, or blood soup, or anything involving offal? No,
but it was an experience, much like my approach to alcohol.
And as someone who doesn't eat meat (intentionally, anyway), if I
were starving to death, I'd probably kill something and eat it,
if it were an option.
But people seem _really_ attached to meat eating, for some
reason. So, odd.
(Incidentally, just to add to the oddness, I like butchering. So,
while I won't eat it, I'll take a chicken or turkey apart because
it's like a reverse puzzle.)
I think it's an American Chinese dish. I think most Chinese places in the US would have it, but I wouldn't state that with any certainty, a I've certainly been to plenty of places that didn't have it.
I watched a Public Broadcasting Service (PBS) show that traced the
origins of General Tso's back to, I thought, somewhere in New York City.
It seems some places have a General Tso's Chicken dish and some don't. Also, it seems it can be inconsistent depending on which restaurant you get it from (but that's about true for any Chinese dish). Usually it's breaded and fried chicken in a sauce that I'd call sweet and spicy (or savory).
making meat substitutes is a worthy goal - If we can significanly cut
down on raising animals for meat and make affordable, healthy meat substitutes, I'd be for that.
(Incidentally, just to add to the oddness, I like
butchering. So, while I won't eat it, I'll take a chicken
or turkey apart because it's like a reverse puzzle.)
Didn't Dalmer start with small animals? LOL
> Ga> I'll starve to death before eating either a cricket, or tofu.
It was me above that said that, and I find it _normal_. I think I'm in the majority on that mindset, too.
Not really following you here... I eat meat, and I *ALSO* like _trying_ things. Just not bugs or coagulated soy milk with a nasty texture.
Well, humans are omnivores, so why would it seem odd? It's part of the
eating LOTS of other things that are NOT meat. Again, hard to follow your "logic" here.
Of all the things you've said here, *THAT* actually *IS* "odd". Kind of strange, is more like it.
Various things that you think are ethnic, immigrant food, but they're really a part of the local culture, and are as American or German as
apple pie or various potato dishes.
It might be normal, but the, "being vegetarian is so weird, I need more MEAT!" just
It's odd to me because it seems like not eating meat feels like a personal offense
And if the substitutes taste as good and are as healthy, it seems like a net positive. Even though I'm sure there'll always be a market for things like kobe beef or whatever.
But a random burger from a fast food joint that overcooks the meat and then covers it in enough other stuff that the quality doesn't matter? It doesn't seem like people would notice.
Various things that you think are ethnic, immigrant food, but they're really a part of the local culture, and are as American or German as apple pie or various potato dishes.Go the Kartoffelpuffer!
I've had a couple of Beyond Whoppers from Burger King. I can tell a difference in flavor of the patty compared to the beef version, but I think it still has a beef-like flavor and is pretty good.
I've had a couple of Beyond Whoppers from Burger King. I can tell a
difference in flavor of the patty compared to the beef version, but
I think it still has a beef-like flavor and is pretty good.
...oh, you're not in the US.
Mostly because it's Impossible Whoppers in the US, I think. Not entirely sure. In Germany I think it's "Plant Whopper" or something like that.
I tend to point out how bad of a German I am (beyond not being natively German) because of not really liking potatoes or beer.
Not really sure what's wrong with me. :)
I tend to point out how bad of a German I am (beyond not being natively German) because of not really liking potatoes or beer.
Yeah, I meant to say Impossible Whopper.. For some reason I was thinking Beyond when I wrote my previous message.
Apfel schnapps for the win then, and maybe a semmelknodel then? :)
Sliced and fried day old knodel <yum>
I live in an area that is known for many craft beer breweries, and wine too, but I don't like beer and I rarely drink alcoholic beverages in general..
There was a German restaurant very close to me that was only there for a couple years, and it closed down several months ago.. I was
disappointed to see it close, as there aren't many German restaurants in my area, and I liked their food.
I do think the Impossible Meat things are pretty interesting, and am sad that I can't get them in Europe (GMO regulations. And not discussing that, here; just sad I can't get an interesting product here, much like my desire for Wisconsin cheese in Germany.).
In furthering that, I've ordered two gin advent calendars and one wine advent calendar.
I will not get through them in December. But having 100ml bottles of wine definitely appeals to me, as it's about as much wine as I'd want to drink, and if I pour half of _that_ out, it's still not very much.
Though this does also remind me of a German store in San Francisco. When I visited it, after having lived in Germany the first time, it felt a bit like being back. Even though I would be getting things like Tempo tissues.
Nifty! Kind of like how the fortune cookie came from San Francisco.
I compare this a bit to kebab places in Germany, where, sure, it seems like a Turkish thing or something, but it's _really_ German.
Various things that you think are ethnic, immigrant food, but they're really a part of the local culture, and are as American or German as
apple pie or various potato dishes.
Nightfox wrote to Adept <=-
Re: Re: Help me here .. I am confused ?
By: Adept to Nightfox on Thu Nov 24 2022 11:54 pm
I do think the Impossible Meat things are pretty interesting, and am sad that I can't get them in Europe (GMO regulations. And not discussing that, here; just sad I can't get an interesting product here, much like my desire for Wisconsin cheese in Germany.).
I think Impossible Meat is interesting too, and I support it.
I hear about Wisconsin cheese, but as someone who lives in Oregon
(another US state), we have a dairy here called Tillamook
Creamery (named after the town of Tillamook, Oregon) that makes
some really good cheese (they make good ice cream too). Even
within Oregon though, their products tend to be more expensive
than other more generic stuff, so I don't buy it all the time.
I will agree that Tillamook ice cream is excellent. Maybe the best I've ever had. However... the best cheese is from Cabot Creameries, in
Cabot, Vermont. Especially notable is the "Seriously Sharp" cheddar.
It can be found in many grocery stores these days.
Nightfox wrote to Gamgee <=-
I will agree that Tillamook ice cream is excellent. Maybe the best I've ever had. However... the best cheese is from Cabot Creameries, in
Cabot, Vermont. Especially notable is the "Seriously Sharp" cheddar.
It can be found in many grocery stores these days.
I don't recall seeing that in stores in my area, but if I see it,
I may have to give it a try.
I'm at least a fan of gebrannte Mandeln.
But I don't think that takes much, as I don't recall meeting other
people who are as "meh" toward potatoes as I am. I'm sure they exist,
but it doesn't really come up.
I compare this a bit to kebab places in Germany, where, sure, it
seems like a Turkish thing or something, but it's _really_ German.
The Kebab is not German. The reason they are ubiquitous in Germany is due to the large number of Turks living there.
Adept wrote to Nightfox <=-
I do think the Impossible Meat things are pretty interesting, and am
sad that I can't get them in Europe (GMO regulations. And not
discussing that, here; just sad I can't get an interesting product
here, much like my desire for Wisconsin cheese in Germany.).
The Kebab is not German. The reason they are ubiquitous in Germany is to the large number of Turks living there.
I've always heard of the kebab as a Turkish (or mediterranean food).
I've never heard of it as a German food.. And in my area, I always see kebabs served at restaurants that are considered mediterranean, middle-eastern, etc.. There's also a couple of Lebanese restaurants in
my area that serve kebab. In contrast, I've never seen kebab at a
German restaurant.
The Kebab is not German. The reason they are ubiquitous in Germany is
due to the large number of Turks living there.
I compare this a bit to kebab places in Germany, where, sure, it seem like a Turkish thing or something, but it's _really_ German.
Various things that you think are ethnic, immigrant food, but they're really a part of the local culture, and are as American or German as apple pie or various potato dishes.
Maybe some bit of this is pedantic, but the topic started with General Tso's, which, while it's "Chinese food", it seems to primarily be an American dish.
I'm at least a fan of gebrannte Mandeln.
Not familiar with these, but they sound a lot like honey roasted cashews.
To my pallete, they taste like an ultra-low fat meat - it lacks the mouthfeel of meat, but has the flavor and texture down pretty well.
Makes for a pretty good burger.
My wife's been vegetarian for the last 5 years, and her take on it is instead of eating veggies made to look like meat, she'd rather just have vegetables. She's not trying to replace meat.
Adept wrote to boraxman <=-
The Kebab is not German. The reason they are ubiquitous in Germany is
due to the large number of Turks living there.
This would be why I said:
I compare this a bit to kebab places in Germany, where, sure, it seem like a Turkish thing or something, but it's _really_ German.
The kebab places in Germany are German food with a strong Turkish
accent.
But at this point, they've been there long enough that it's as
German as fortune cookies are American food.
But, as I said:
Various things that you think are ethnic, immigrant food, but they're really a part of the local culture, and are as American or German as apple pie or various potato dishes.
Again, it's not super-authentic food that came from Turkey. It's Turkish-influenced food that's German.
Maybe some bit of this is pedantic, but the topic started with
General Tso's, which, while it's "Chinese food", it seems to
primarily be an American dish.
Sometimes I've wondered what makes a food 'from' a particular place? If
a group of Turkish people emigrate to another country and invent some
new food dishes there, is it still Turkish food, or is the food from the country they're now living (and would be considered Turkish-inspired food)?
The kebab is NOT German, and it's really that simple.
But sugar coatings for nuts tend to be tasty treats, regardless of
coating or nut.
Adept wrote to Gamgee <=-
The kebab is NOT German, and it's really that simple.
...so you're explaining how people choose their position on
something, and then find reasons for it, so you might as well
start with just stating the opinion as fact, and skip all that
unnecessary fact finding that's just about strengthening one's
position to oneself?
It's not my *opinion* that
The kebab is NOT German, and it's really that simple.
...so you're explaining how people choose their position on something,
and then find reasons for it, so you might as well start with just
stating the opinion as fact, and skip all that unnecessary fact finding that's just about strengthening one's position to oneself?
Nice! A brilliant shortcut in psychology. Well demonstrated.
Adept wrote to Gamgee <=-
It's not my *opinion* that
...yes it is.
And that's a fact. Objective fact, that I have just proven to be
objective fact by stating that it is an objective fact.
(I'd go back to addressing the topic, but that ship sailed, and
now I'm just having fun launching tautologies for the
entertainment value. Hopefully others are entertained, rather
than irritated.)
The Kebab isn't German though. It's not of German origin. The only reason its popular is because of the large number of migrants from countries which have Kebabs.
It really is that simple.
The Kebab isn't German though. It's not of German origin. The only reason its popular is because of the large number of migrants from countries which have Kebabs.
I doubt anyone is entertained by poor writing styles.
And Doener Kebab, in Germany, is a bit of a mixture between what's
common in Turkey and a gyro from Greece, and is something that you don't get elsewhere.
esc wrote to Adept <=-
And Doener Kebab, in Germany, is a bit of a mixture between what's
common in Turkey and a gyro from Greece, and is something that you don't get elsewhere.
Having spent a lot of time in various Middle Eastern countries as
well as Germany, I don't personally agree with your assessment
here. But I do enjoy reading the argument everyone is having for
some reason lol.
But yeah, the "is something that you don't get elsewhere" - full
stop, this is not true. Speaking from a multitude of personal
experience here. :)
Adept wrote to Gamgee <=-
I doubt anyone is entertained by poor writing styles.
...stop.
We're done, here.
Adept wrote to boraxman <=-
The Kebab isn't German though. It's not of German origin. The only reason its popular is because of the large number of migrants from countries which have Kebabs.
The potato isn't of German origin, either. And tomatoes aren't
Italian.
And Doener Kebab, in Germany, is a bit of a mixture between
what's common in Turkey and a gyro from Greece, and is something
that you don't get elsewhere.
Clearly it's still strongly influenced by immigrants from Turkey.
Just that the exact version is as German as the fortune cookie is American.
Which has been my point from the beginning, as I was talking
about General Tso's being an American dish, even though people
get it at Chinese restaurants.
Clearly it's still strongly influenced by immigrants from Turkey.
Just that the exact version is as German as the fortune cookie is American.
I've seen Doener Kebab outside of Germany, and fortune cookies outside
of America. See above re: wrong again.
I doubt anyone is entertained by poor writing styles.
...stop.
We're done, here.
Once again, you snip out ALL the context, in a vain attempt to further
your point, which is still wrong.
The kebab is NOT German, and it's really that simple.
The Kebab isn't German though. It's not of German origin. The only reason its popular is because of the large number of migrants from countries which have Kebabs.
The potato isn't of German origin, either. And tomatoes aren't Italian.
And Doener Kebab, in Germany, is a bit of a mixture between what's
common in Turkey and a gyro from Greece, and is something that you don't get elsewhere.
Clearly it's still strongly influenced by immigrants from Turkey. Just that the exact version is as German as the fortune cookie is American.
Which has been my point from the beginning, as I was talking about
General Tso's being an American dish, even though people get it at
Chinese restaurants.
And Doener Kebab, in Germany, is a bit of a mixture between what's common in Turkey and a gyro from Greece, and is something that you do get elsewhere.
Having spent a lot of time in various Middle Eastern countries as well as Germany, I don't personally agree with your assessment here. But I do enjoy reading the argument everyone is having for some reason lol.
But yeah, the "is something that you don't get elsewhere" - full stop, this is not true. Speaking from a multitude of personal experience here. :)
Clearly it's still strongly influenced by immigrants from Turkey. Just that the exact version is as German as the fortune cookie is American.
I've seen Doener Kebab outside of Germany, and fortune cookies outside of America. See above re: wrong again.
So reading this thread, it seems what adept is saying is Germans have a special kebab that they make which they call a Doener Kebab. We have Doener kebabs in Australia, but I don't know if they are the same as German ones, but we have a lot of german immigrants too.
[...] I would say american's invented peanut butter and jam
(Sorry I just can't call it "jelly") sandwich (and they can
keep it).
Who invented the sandwich? and can people invent types of sandwiches? I
afiak, jam and jelly re technically different things.
apam wrote to Gamgee <=-
I doubt anyone is entertained by poor writing styles.
...stop.
We're done, here.
Once again, you snip out ALL the context, in a vain attempt to further
your point, which is still wrong.
No.
That was saying she's had enough of your conversation, not trying
to further any point. Given that you've digressed into personal
attacks, it's probably a good idea to stop.
apam wrote to Gamgee <=-
Clearly it's still strongly influenced by immigrants from Turkey.
Just that the exact version is as German as the fortune cookie is American.
I've seen Doener Kebab outside of Germany, and fortune cookies outside
of America. See above re: wrong again.
So reading this thread, it seems what adept is saying is Germans
have a special kebab that they make which they call a Doener
Kebab. We have Doener kebabs in Australia, but I don't know if
they are the same as German ones, but we have a lot of german
immigrants too.
Who invented the sandwich? and can people invent types of
sandwiches? I would say we invented the vegimite sandwich, but
did not invent sandwiches. I would say american's invented peanut
butter and jam (Sorry I just can't call it "jelly") sandwich (and
they can keep it).
A kebab is a lot like a sandwich, it's the fillings that make it different.
Ha! Probably the biggest contribution to wine from Austraya, is the " Bag", being the guts out of cask wine.. chuckle. Not much of a wine
That... doesn't sound either flattering or tasty, but _does_ sound entertaining.
There's a college campus trend now, called "smashing the bag". You take cheap box wine out of the box and squeeze the bag while drinking out of the spigot.
you mean slap the bag? which we did in 2005?
Oh, god, I've turned into that uncle who tries to talk to the kidz about things he's read about.
fusion wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
On 01 Apr 2024, poindexter FORTRAN said the following...
There's a college campus trend now, called "smashing the bag". You take cheap box wine out of the box and squeeze the bag while drinking out of the spigot.
you mean slap the bag? which we did in 2005?
i guess the youngsters are rediscovering almost 20 year old
concepts
To each generation their own. My generation proudly made beer bongs out
of rubber tubing, funnels and hose clamps - and we thought we were the sassiest froods out there.
There's a college campus trend now, called "smashing the bag". You
you mean slap the bag? which we did in 2005?
Hate to tell you this, but it's more like 40+...
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