So I'm getting to the point where I'm going to improve my BBS for use by a
few locals. Before doing that though, I wanted to make sure I was picking the right software for the job. I could use some experience from the group, and I understand that my opinions and (dis)likes are my own.

I vastly prefer the overall user experience, especially the Indexed Message Reader. The backend is a bit messy, and server is flaky, and it's excessively closed development. But becuase the UI is simpler for n00bs, it's my
preference so far.

I prefer the development style and more modern featureset of Enigma1/2. If
it weren't for the following dislikes I'd choose it in a heartbeat... The message reader seems better than synchro but worse than mystics. I don't
like having to hit enter after menu commands. Any known customizations to fix those issues to my liking?

I prefer the backend featureset of Synchronet. The message reader is really high effort to navigate as a user. Any known customization to get a reader
more like Mystic's Indexed Message Reader?


Any insight to help me out? I couldn't find anything that easily answered my concerns.

Thanks,
Andre

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Runaan BBS (21:3/117)

Any insight to help me out? I couldn't find anything that easily
answered my
concerns.

Hey Andre! You'll def. get a lot of opinions here. The reality is, it ends
up being a personal choice as it's all being driven by everyone's own needs/bias/preferences.

Like many here, I've actively used pretty much all the currently supported/modern BBS systems for the past year or more, learning, hacking
and documenting along the way. Each, piece of software,in their own way,
is incredible. Special. Mystic, Synchronet and Enigma I consider to be
mature software. And they each have their own philisophy, approaches
and communities which often reflect their authors' tastes.

And I've had positive enounters with all of them!

A couple more I'd also def. recommend:

|03- Talisman (brand spankin' new)
|07The author, apam, has lots of ideas, is very accessible and listens to
the community. I ran it as my "shadow" BBS for a while to test, and I'm
now in the process of going all-in on it. Not feature complete, but if you
like being a part of new software and an emerging scene, check it out!
It's also relatively light-weight and I'm really digging what you can do
with the embedded Luascript, like Mystic's embedded Python, it makes
everything "hackable" (see below)

|03- WWIV (oldie but goodie)
|07Rushfan is doing an incredible job modernizing what I consider to be
the progenitor of 'modern' BBSs. It still has a lot of legacy quirtks, but
it's a ton of fun and there's a whole other community to explore around WWIVnet. Some pretty cool ideas in there.

My personal criteria:

1. Nothing will do 100% what you want it to do, that's just the reality,
so just pick one... But don't feel like you have to use it forever.

2. Community matters. Are there other sysops/users actively engaged in conversation and experimentation? Are they helpful?

3. Open Source vs. Closed Source: I used to care alot about this, but the reality: it's often just the maintainers doing the lion's share of
contribution anyway. I don't have the skill to fork and maintain
diddly squat -- so what's more important to me is that the author stays engaged, and listens to the users, over time. It's a hobby for all of us, including the authors, but it's still important that a system doesn't
stagnate for long periods of times or critical bugs go ignored.

4. Can you hack it? I mean, customize it. No one wants a BBS that looks
like a bone-stock carbon copy stepford wife. What mechanisms exist to
overhaul the interface? Beyond just adding ANSI art. From existing mods, embedded scripting languages and menu system configurability -- it all
needs to be *accessible*--hopefully documented-- and allow folks with a
modicum of programming skills to modify it. Doesn't need to be WYSIWYG. I
find Talisman, Mystic and Enigma to be pretty flexible, each in their own right.

I know this doesn't answer your question :)

The reality is -- whatever you choose, you really can't go wrong. And when
you want a change, make a change.

My catchphrase: GOTTA RUN 'EM ALL!

Much love to all the authors.

Cheers,
|04[] |11Alpha
|03The Drunken Gamer |08/ |14TheDrunkenGamer.com:2323
|07A Talisman BBS

--- Talisman v0.10-dev (Linux/armv7l)
* Origin: The Drunken Gamer BBS (21:4/158)

Re: Comparing BBS Software Again
By: Andre to All on Wed Jan 27 2021 04:24 pm

I prefer the backend featureset of Synchronet. The message reader is really high effort to navigate as a user. Any known customization to get a reader more like Mystic's Indexed Message Reader?

There is a 3rd party message reader for Synchronet that you might find interesting.

I still use the built in message reader. I find it quick and easy to scan for new messages to myself and new messages on the system.

Any insight to help me out? I couldn't find anything that easily answered my concerns.

I really like what Mystic has to offer as well, it's message reading and replying functions are second to none.

In the end it comes down to your personal preference, so just go with what you like and what gets what you wanted done, done. :)

Ttyl :-),
Al

... To err is human, to really screw up it takes a computer!
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106.1)

El 27/1/21 a las 19:24, Andre escribió:

So I'm getting to the point where I'm going to improve my BBS for use by a few locals. Before doing that though, I wanted to make sure I was picking the right software for the job. I could use some experience from the group, and I understand that my opinions and (dis)likes are my own.

I use Synchronet, is fully customizable and have cool js engine to
coding any that you need, include all menu shell workflow.
I prefer use open source software because i agrre with the development process..

I think that Mystic and Enigma also have scripting engine to extend it.
You can compare the object model of these bbs software to find if is you
like.

Saludos!
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: Dock Sud BBS - bbs.docksud.com.ar - Argentina (21:2/151)

Re: Comparing BBS Software Again
By: Andre to All on Wed Jan 27 2021 04:24 pm

I prefer the backend featureset of Synchronet. The message reader is really high effort to navigate as a user. Any known customization to get a reader
more like Mystic's Indexed Message Reader?

There are a couple of message readers in Synchronet.

I've played with the old one (non-js I think), and the newer js message one (which is probably installed by default on new systems now). I'm not a huge fan of the js one, but just havent got around ot changing.

There is also another one that folks use (which I'll try out) - DDMsgReader (or something like that).

But since its all javascript, you could probably built something to your liking pretty easily (but probably not a trivial task as I think about it).

...ëîåï

... I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

Andre around Wednesday, January 27th...

I prefer the development style and more modern featureset of Enigma1/2. If it weren't for the following dislikes I'd choose it in a heartbeat... The message reader seems better than synchro but worse than mystics. I don't like having to hit enter after menu commands. Any known customizations to fix those issues to my liking?

You can set hot keys for any menu items (e.g. how ESC often goes "back", or "N" relates to a "Next" menu in a message list). Menus can have prompts or not (depending how you build them). E.g. you can have a prompt that's recycled among mutliple menus that uses a KeyEntryView vs a TextEditView (which the default theme uses).

What do you not like about the message reader? FWIW though, the one you get "out of the box" is just a default. You can make it work however you want.


--
|08 â–  |12NuSkooler |06// |12Xibalba |08- |07"|06The place of fear|07"
|08 â–  |03xibalba|08.|03l33t|08.|03codes |08(|0344510|08/|03telnet|08, |0344511|08/|03ssh|08)
|08 â–  |03ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |08| |03Phenom |08| |0367 |08| |03iMPURE |08| |03ACiDic
--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.12-beta (linux; x64; 12.13.1)
* Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.l33t.codes:44510 (21:1/121)

On 27 Jan 2021, Ragnarok said the following...

I use Synchronet, is fully customizable and have cool js engine to
coding any that you need, include all menu shell workflow.

I feel that the config menu system in Synchronet is by far its biggest
benefit. The documentation is probably the best of the litter as well. It's just been heavily developed for so long that it has a great feature set.

But while I understand it's customizable, the menu hotkeys and overall usability are so clunky compared to Mystic. Every time I hop on someone's Synchro board it just feels so unintuitive. Feels like it's written more for the sysop than the user.

It certainly does seem like it does the best job of letting the BBS be a tool to get the goal/job done instead of running the BBS being the goal/job.


- Andre

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Runaan BBS (21:3/117)

On 28 Jan 2021, deon said the following...

I've played with the old one (non-js I think), and the newer js message one (which is probably installed by default on new systems now). I'm not
a huge fan of the js one, but just havent got around ot changing.

I watched a video from a couple years ago where a guy was showing off the (at the time) new message reader features. It was halfway decent. Still didn't quite meet the level that I think Mystic is at though with the menu-driven reader it has. That said, I finally updated to A46, and the new message
reader seems like a step backward for usability.

There is also another one that folks use (which I'll try out) - DDMsgReader (or something like that).

I glanced at a video of it. Pretty nice, but still doesn't seem quite to Mystic's level.

It's really tough to weigh the pile of other great Synchro features against what I feel is a poorer message browser. For me and the people I know, the message boards are by far the draw to use a BBS at all. I see a lot of other sysops talk about all their files and the door games and whatnot, but that's just not going to be the reason people I know would use my BBS (if they use
it at all).


- Andre

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Runaan BBS (21:3/117)

On 27 Jan 2021, Alpha said the following...

Hey Andre! You'll def. get a lot of opinions here. The reality is, it
ends up being a personal choice as it's all being driven by everyone's
own needs/bias/preferences.

That's why I asked. :)

And I agree that it's personal choice. I tried to downplay my own beliefs and opinions for that reason.

- Talisman (brand spankin' new)

Hadn't seen this one. Will have to check it out.

- WWIV (oldie but goodie)

My old 90s board was WWIV. The past year or two of dev work has been great. Just not sure I see a benefit to dragging along all that legacy code/config.

2. Community matters. Are there other sysops/users actively engaged in conversation and experimentation? Are they helpful?

I'm not seeing a lack of response from the big three, but to be honest I haven't frequented the non-Mystic echos much because I've only had a Mystic board the past year.

3. Open Source vs. Closed Source: I used to care alot about this, but the

4. Can you hack it? I mean, customize it. No one wants a BBS that looks

You know, I don't much care about open vs closed, or even much about hacking anything beyond the menus. But the worst thing about Mystic and the best
thing about Enigma 1/2 is the ability to see the backend and submit a bug report or fix.


- Andre

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Runaan BBS (21:3/117)

On 27 Jan 2021, Al said the following...

I really like what Mystic has to offer as well, it's message reading and replying functions are second to none.

It really is spectacular. The new message reader feels like a step backward, but it's still best of breed from my point-of-view.


- Andre

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Runaan BBS (21:3/117)

On 27 Jan 2021, NuSkooler said the following...

You can set hot keys for any menu items (e.g. how ESC often goes "back", or "N" relates to a "Next" menu in a message list). Menus can have
prompts or not (depending how you build them).

When reading the docs earlier, I hadn't clicked through to the MCI section... even if I did I was probably skimming too fast to have seen the Key Entry piece. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

What do you not like about the message reader? FWIW though, the one you get "out of the box" is just a default. You can make it work however you want.

Honestly, it's a pretty standard message reader. Change group, change area, etc. I've been spoiled with the menu-driven message browser in Mystic, where users don't have to know all that. They simply see different areas all in
the same screen (separated by section headings), then arrow around the echos and enter/esc to go into or out of them. Doesn't seem wholly unlike msglist
for Synchronet.

Maybe all that is possible with Enigma. It's just such a steep learning
curve, partially because of doing it all in HJSON, partially because you've built *so* many features for customization, that I haven't figured that out.


- Andre

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Runaan BBS (21:3/117)

Re: Re: Comparing BBS Software Again
By: Andre to deon on Wed Jan 27 2021 09:08 pm

It's really tough to weigh the pile of other great Synchro features against what I feel is a poorer message browser. For me and the people I know, the message boards are by far the draw to use a BBS at all. I see a lot of other sysops talk about all
their files and the door games and whatnot, but that's just not going to be the reason people I know would use my BBS (if they use
it at all).

Yeah, I've used Mystic, and I dont miss it's message reader. I dont think its way better, but maybe it's different.

I like Synchronets message handling - I get an alert when I'm online (or logging on) that somebody sent me a message, which is cool - and then when I scan all messages to me, I can read that message without affecting my last read pointers. (That was something I didnt like about Mystic, although I think I heard there was away around that now.)

Like somebody said I think, there are pros and cons to each offering, and I've tried a few, an pretty happy with SBBS - enjoying hacking the JS at the same time (when I get a chance).

...ëîåï

... Golf is a walk, spoiled.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

On 27 Jan 2021 at 04:24p, Andre pondered and said...

So I'm getting to the point where I'm going to improve my BBS for use by
a few locals. Before doing that though, I wanted to make sure I was picking the right software for the job. I could use some experience from the group, and I understand that my opinions and (dis)likes are my own.

I vastly prefer the overall user experience, especially the Indexed Message Reader. The backend is a bit messy, and server is flaky, and
it's excessively closed development. But becuase the UI is simpler for n00bs, it's my preference so far.

I prefer the development style and more modern featureset of Enigma1/2.
If it weren't for the following dislikes I'd choose it in a heartbeat... The message reader seems better than synchro but worse than mystics. I don't like having to hit enter after menu commands. Any known customizations to fix those issues to my liking?

I prefer the backend featureset of Synchronet. The message reader is really high effort to navigate as a user. Any known customization to get
a reader more like Mystic's Indexed Message Reader?

Any insight to help me out? I couldn't find anything that easily
answered my concerns.

I suppose one might start with the question, what do you want
your BBS to do? Personally, I'm not too interested in just
having something that only I use, but I think that's kind of
the default. Give me a place to go, something interesting to
do, people to interact with.

That said, if I had to pick an off-the-shelf BBS program right
now, I'd go with Enigma or Talisman, with Synchronet a third.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

I prefer the backend featureset of Synchronet. The message reader is really high effort to navigate as a user. Any known customization to get a reader more like Mystic's Indexed Message Reader?

DDMsgReader
DDAreaChoosers

are JS modules for Synchronet (they come in the xtrn dir) that, in my opinion, vastly improve the message reading experience over the native reader.

Bob Roberts
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: Halls of Valhalla -:- hovalbbs.com:2333 (21:2/118)

BY: deon(21:2/116)


|11d|09> |10* Run SBBS and have it feed Dove via FTN to engima|07
|11d|09> |10* Have somebody else feed you Dove via FTN (I can - yell out if you want|07
|11d|09> |10to go this path).|07
Im wondering if I can gate also via winserver as well.


--- WWIV 5.6.1.3407
* Origin: inland utopia * socal usa * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (21:4/108)

Twas Saturday, January 30th when Nuke said...

seems to meet exactly what my needs were. It is a little daunting if you haven't been in code for awhile - but great support and documentation. I wish there was an easy fix to connecting to DOVE net though. I still haven't gotten that one down.

Ah, I responded to a email last night but disclaimer: It was like 2 in the morning and I was drunk lol. Hopefully it came out helpful.

DOVE is QWK right? There currently isn't full QWK support yet (it hasn't been in high demand) but most of the ground work is there from implementing the QWK/offline mail stuff.

IIRC DOVE can be accessed via FTN as well though? (Someone can correct me here)



--
|08 â–  |12NuSkooler |06// |12Xibalba |08- |07"|06The place of fear|07"
|08 â–  |03xibalba|08.|03l33t|08.|03codes |08(|0344510|08/|03telnet|08, |0344511|08/|03ssh|08)
|08 â–  |03ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |08| |03Phenom |08| |0367 |08| |03iMPURE |08| |03ACiDic
--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.12-beta (linux; x64; 12.13.1)
* Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.l33t.codes:44510 (21:1/121)

Ah, I responded to a email last night but disclaimer: It was like 2 in
the morning and I was drunk lol. Hopefully it came out helpful.

You might be interested in a local message base I have on The Drunken
Gamer BBS called "BBSing while Intoxicated." The only requirement for
posting there is that you are, in fact, drunk or high. It doesn't even
have to be helpful!

:)

Cheers,




|04[] |11Alpha
|03The Drunken Gamer |08/ |14TheDrunkenGamer.com:2323
|07A Talisman BBS

--- Talisman v0.10-dev (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: The Drunken Gamer BBS (21:4/158)

You might be interested in a local message base I have on The Drunken Gamer BBS called "BBSing while Intoxicated." The only requirement for posting there is that you are, in fact, drunk or high. It doesn't even

That sounds hilarious. I can imagine browsing through the messages the day after and having a good laugh of what was written the night before.

JF

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: bitHaven BBS (21:1/139)

Twas Sunday, January 31st when Alpha said...

You might be interested in a local message base I have on The Drunken Gamer BBS called "BBSing while Intoxicated." The only requirement for posting there is that you are, in fact, drunk or high. It doesn't even have to be helpful!

Hah, in reality I was both -- guess I'll have to stop by soon!


--
|08 â–  |12NuSkooler |06// |12Xibalba |08- |07"|06The place of fear|07"
|08 â–  |03xibalba|08.|03l33t|08.|03codes |08(|0344510|08/|03telnet|08, |0344511|08/|03ssh|08)
|08 â–  |03ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |08| |03Phenom |08| |0367 |08| |03iMPURE |08| |03ACiDic
--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.12-beta (linux; x64; 12.13.1)
* Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.l33t.codes:44510 (21:1/121)

when I scan all messages to me, I can read that message without
affecting my last read pointers. (That was something I didnt like about

You can read all new messages addressed to yourself without affecting
your message pointer?

So the messages will show up again later when you're doing a regular newscan?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Compufuck | Binghamton, NY | compufuck.xyz (21:1/197)

Re: Re: Comparing BBS Software Again
By: Shitty to deon on Thu Jan 28 2021 04:41 pm

You can read all new messages addressed to yourself without affecting
your message pointer?

So the messages will show up again later when you're doing a regular newscan?

It does.

It also shows up with a "read" status, so you could probably update the new scan to skip it, if you wanted to.

...ëîåï

... Da trouble wit computers is, dey got no sense of humor.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

Re: Re: Comparing BBS Software Again
By: Shitty to deon on Thu Jan 28 2021 04:41 pm

You can read all new messages addressed to yourself without affecting
your message pointer?

Yes. add /NOLR to the MN command on your personalscan menu, then last read pointers will not be adjusted when you do a personal scan.

Ttyl :-),
Al

... Internal error: The sytem has been taken over by sheep at line 19960
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106.1)

Re: Comparing BBS Software Again
By: Andre to All on Wed Jan 27 2021 04:24 pm

So I'm getting to the point where I'm going to improve my BBS for use by a few locals. Before doing that though, I wanted to make sure I was picking th understand that my opinions and (dis)likes are my own.

I prefer the backend featureset of Synchronet. The message reader is really high effort to navigate as a user. Any known customization to get a reader more like Mystic's Indexed Message Reader?

Check out "Slyedit" for Synchronet BBS.

---
þ Synchronet þ Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
* Origin: fsxNet FTN<>QWK Gateway (21:4/10)

when I scan all messages to me, I can read that message without
affecting my last read pointers. (That was something I didnt like
about

You can read all new messages addressed to yourself without affecting
your message pointer?

So the messages will show up again later when you're doing a regular newscan?

Correct. So you can scan for your messages if you are pressed for time, then come back later and read all the new stuff, which will include the messages to you.




Bob Roberts
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: Halls of Valhalla -:- hovalbbs.com:2333 (21:2/118)

Bob Roberts wrote to Andre <=-

I prefer the backend featureset of Synchronet. The message reader is really high effort to navigate as a user. Any known customization to get a reader more like Mystic's Indexed Message Reader?

DDMsgReader
DDAreaChoosers

are JS modules for Synchronet (they come in the xtrn dir) that,
in my opinion, vastly improve the message reading experience over
the native reader.

I'll second that!



... Bug free, cheap, on time, works. Pick two.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

I just went through what felt like the whole gambit - about six different software packages. Top 3 winners were Mystic, Synchronet and Enigma. Mystic really caught my eye, but kept crashing (freezing) on me - about once a day with nothing listed in the logs. Synchronet was really great and I enjoyed how I could customize things, but there were little nit-pick things I found undesirable. Enigma is my current choice as it seems to meet exactly what my needs were. It is a little daunting if you haven't been in code for awhile - but great support and documentation. I wish there was an easy fix to connecting to DOVE net though. I still haven't gotten that one down.

Enigma allows themes and I'm trying to get brave enough to create my customization through it.
~ Nuke

--
You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!
~Nuke SYSOP Westwood BBS II nuke@21:3/134 nuke@westwoodbbs.net
telnet westwoodbbs.net 8888 (ssh 8889) Powered by ENIGMA 0.5!
--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.12-beta (linux; x64; 12.20.1)
* Origin: Westwood BBS II (21:3/134)

Re: Re: Comparing BBS Software Again
By: Nuke to Ragnarok on Sat Jan 30 2021 08:44 pm

I wish there was an easy fix to
connecting to DOVE net though. I still haven't gotten that one down.

I'm not sure if Enigma can do QWK (or how), but if FTN is your only option, then you have a couple of choices.

* Run SBBS and have it feed Dove via FTN to engima
* Have somebody else feed you Dove via FTN (I can - yell out if you want to go this path).

...ëîåï

... A sharp tongue and a dull mind are usually found in the same head!
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

On 31 Jan 2021, NuSkooler said the following...

IIRC DOVE can be accessed via FTN as well though? (Someone can correct
me here)

Yes. I've offered it here via FTN for quite some time, although I've never really advertised it much. It's mainly for the few people out there that can't do QWK at all due to using software that doesn't support it, and don't care to setup Synchronet or Mystic just to feed themselves Dovenet via QWK.

If you fall under that category, shoot me an email accessd (at) pharcyde (dot) org.

Regards,
Nick

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/01/30 (Linux/64)
* Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (21:1/200)