It is. I actually work on the develpoment of a robot taxi for my occupation. Shit's getting real.
Really? Which one?
In the movies and video games the idea of autonomous weapons ranges from cool to horrifying. In reality I find it horrifying because the ways
used to identify an enemy can be false positives. If your friend or foe identification system can be jammed or confused, or if you rely on visual clues, I hope the robot is smart enough to ask for help if it is not 100% certain. In the Ukraine, both sides share common hardware ranging from trucks to armor to fighter jets. The only way to knwo where the enemy
is is know where your people aren't. As the enemy approaches, an enemy on the wrong side of the lines can be very dangerous. An armor unit
that is ahead of it'sgoal may appear to be retreating enemies.
Yes, really, zoox.com :-)
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: esc to Digital Man on Thu Sep 01 2022 11:15 pm
It is. I actually work on the develpoment of a robot taxi for my occupation. Shit's getting real.
Really? Which one?
Yes, really, zoox.com :-)
You get passed only doing 70mph around here!! Hopefully that time
comes soon. Will hopefully save a lot of lives.
i'm doing like 90 to work and some asshole is driving up my ass like he's going to hit me and flashing his brights on me. ---
i'm doing like 90 to work and some asshole is driving up my ass like he's going to hit me and flashing his brights on me. ---
I'll bet $50 that asshole had Illinois plates.
DaiTengu
... Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
I'll bet $50 that asshole had Illinois plates.
I'll bet $50 that asshole had Illinois plates.
Thats too funny right there!!
|10I|02rish_|10M|02onk
In the movies and video games the idea of autonomous weapons ranges fro cool to horrifying. In reality I find it horrifying because the ways used to identify an enemy can be false positives. If your friend or fo identification system can be jammed or confused, or if you rely on visu clues, I hope the robot is smart enough to ask for help if it is not 10 certain. In the Ukraine, both sides share common hardware ranging from trucks to armor to fighter jets. The only way to knwo where the enemy is is know where your people aren't. As the enemy approaches, an enem on the wrong side of the lines can be very dangerous. An armor unit that is ahead of it'sgoal may appear to be retreating enemies.
I suspect we as a species will never agree to fully autonomous weapon system
The one exception is those systems that acquire incoming and try shooting it
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: MRO to Irish_Monk on Fri Sep 02 2022 07:40 am
You get passed only doing 70mph around here!! Hopefully that time
comes soon. Will hopefully save a lot of lives.
i'm doing like 90 to work and some asshole is driving up my ass like he going to hit me and flashing his brights on me. ---
I'll bet $50 that asshole had Illinois plates.
DaiTengu
... Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Damn FIPS! I had one in a Hellcat coming close to a bumper impact, weaving back and forth in the lane trying to pass me on either the shoulder or other l ane which is solid with cars and no passing. Dude tried to make his move and neary hit a box truck. He pulled hard right and bashed in the guard rail.
His steering was really wobbly now, and when he pulled into a drive to a gated community, he crashed nose first into a barrier wall made of railroad
pretty cool era. In fact I think in 20 years we'll think back in horror to the fact that all these people were hurtling around with tons of metal at 70mph while playing with their phones. It'll feel like the wil west.
You get passed only doing 70mph around here!! Hopefully that time comes soon
|10I|02rish_|10M|02onk
... Read messages, not taglines
In the movies and video games the idea of autonomous weapons ranges from coo to horrifying. In reality I find it horrifying because the ways used to identify an enemy can be false positives. If your friend or foe identification system can be jammed or confused, or if you rely on visual clues, I hope the robot is smart enough to ask for help if it is not 100% certain. In the Ukraine, both sides share common hardware ranging from trucks to armor to fighter jets. The only way to knwo where the enemy is is know where your people aren't. As the enemy approaches, an enemy on the wrong side of the lines can be very dangerous. An armor unit that is ahead of it'sgoal may appear to be retreating enemies.
Besides, given the current state of self-driving technology, I would consider the imposition of self-driving cars a step backwards, since it would place transport in the hands of corporations which would run your car from a network of edge servers. If you have heard complaints about corporations owning your computer instead of you owning your computer, this is just the same idea.
You get passed only doing 70mph around here!! Hopefully that time comes soon
The point is moot. We are past peak oil since 2019 so I predict in the near future people won t be able to afford private transport. Governments worldwide are forcing the situation to explode faster because scarcity of transport would mean the government would get more powerful (ie. chances for taxed licenses for industrial transport and the like).
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: Moondog to DaiTengu on Sat Sep 03 2022 02:18 pm
Damn FIPS! I had one in a Hellcat coming close to a bumper impact, weavi back and forth in the lane trying to pass me on either the shoulder or ot l ane which is solid with cars and no passing. Dude tried to make his mo and neary hit a box truck. He pulled hard right and bashed in the guard rail.
His steering was really wobbly now, and when he pulled into a drive to a gated community, he crashed nose first into a barrier wall made of railro
arent you in the midwest? there's people stealing hellcats with airtags. thI'm in SW Michigan. From the shore of Lake Michigan we can see Chicago (at least Sears Tower and city skyline) from 60 miles away due west.
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: Irish_Monk to esc on Fri Sep 02 2022 07:42 am
pretty cool era. In fact I think in 20 years we'll think back in hor to the fact that all these people were hurtling around with tons of metal at 70mph while playing with their phones. It'll feel like the west.
You get passed only doing 70mph around here!! Hopefully that time comes s
|10I|02rish_|10M|02onk
... Read messages, not taglines
The point is moot. We are past peak oil since 2019 so I predict in the near future people won t be able to afford private transport. Governments worldwi are forcing the situation to explode faster because scarcity of transport wo mean the government would get more powerful (ie. chances for taxed licenses industrial transport and the like).
Besides, given the current state of self-driving technology, I would conside the imposition of self-driving cars a step backwards, since it would place transport in the hands of corporations which would run your car from a netwo of edge servers. If you have heard complaints about corporations owning your computer instead of you owning your computer, this is just the same idea.
--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: Moondog to esc on Fri Sep 02 2022 09:31 am
In the movies and video games the idea of autonomous weapons ranges from to horrifying. In reality I find it horrifying because the ways used to identify an enemy can be false positives. If your friend or foe identification system can be jammed or confused, or if you rely on visual clues, I hope the robot is smart enough to ask for help if it is not 100% certain. In the Ukraine, both sides share common hardware ranging from trucks to armor to fighter jets. The only way to knwo where the enemy is know where your people aren't. As the enemy approaches, an enemy on the wrong side of the lines can be very dangerous. An armor unit that is ahe of it'sgoal may appear to be retreating enemies.
The South Korean experimental ones walk around with the safeties on. If they find something that looks like an enemy, they will acquire a lock on it but will only open fire if set to hot mode.
They are currently using them for border patrol. The idea is that if they fi something, somebody in HQ will decide whether to switch the safeties off or on the spot.
--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
thI'm in SW Michigan. From the shore of Lake Michigan we can see Chicago (at least Sears Tower and city skyline) from 60 miles away due west.
SWM is a tourist area. Wineries and Micro Breweries and Distillerys have taken over. FIPS have summer homes and invade every weekend. I94 is loaded with FIP cars and there is a long line going into Waren Dunes State Park.
The point is moot. We are past peak oil since 2019 so I predict in the near future people won t be able to afford private transport.
Is this so terrible? What's the point? A car is typically the second biggest investment someone will make (after the home) and it's one that is exceedingly likely to be a financial loss, and it's something people spend a trivial amount of time actually using (vs other large expenses).
I can press a button on my phone and the car shows up, I get in, and take a nap or use my computer or something and then arrive at my destination later, without having to worry about licensing/taxes/maintenance/etc, seems like a home run.
I say this as a "car guy" that has several cars, it's one of my biggest hobbies.
in my country that shit wont fly. people only take so much bullshit until th
americans love to take their cars out and drive around like idiots. i dont s
when i was at my old job, for a number of years i took public transportation my employer paid for it so i was like what the hell. in the morning i would
that city supposely won awards for its great public transportation.
Can a corporation do a better job maintaining a fleet of autonomous vehicles compare to a city or county government? The rent a car industry seems to always have more modern cars in good shape.
Personally, I like having a personal car that won't get shut off because the company's network can't see it due to poor cell reception or lack of related cell partnerships.
The point is moot. We are past peak oil since 2019 so I predict in the near future people won t be able to afford private transport.
Is this so terrible? What's the point? A car is typically the second biggest ing (vs other large expenses).
I think we've grown used to being in a world where everyone owns their own transportation but I don't think that's because it's needed...a future where I can press a button on my phone and the car shows up, I get in, and take a nap or use my computer or something and then arrive at my destination later, without having to worry about licensing/taxes/maintenance/etc, seems like a home run.
The greater the claim of conspiracy, the greater the evidence
required.
it's not my job to educate the ignorant.>>>> It *IS* your job
to back up your claims with credible evidence.
last i checked that's not my fucking job pal. we're not in court
of law.
the vehicle.
Also, for a number of people, lacking a privately owned vehicle would be absolutely terrible. To this day I have seen no offer from any Transport-as-a-Service agency that would lend me a car to deliver orders made to my store without eating all my profit away. Not to mention I cannot get a pizza delivered to my house, so my bet is nobody would deliver a car to my place either.
I'd be curious to see (or make) a cost analysis of owning a car vs. not owning one and using ride/taxi services. I wonder how it would cost to continually use ride services and public transportation vs. owning a car. Owning your own car is very convenient; I like being able to get in my car and go wherever I want, when I want.
last i checked that's not my fucking job pal. we're not in court
of law.
Then the assumption must be that you're full of shit and don't know what
the hell you are talking about. Fair enough.
Is this so terrible? What's the point? A car is typically the second biggest investment someone will make (after the home) and it's one that is exceedingly likely to be a financial loss, and it's something people spend a trivial amount of time actually using (vs other large expenses).
I think we've grown used to being in a world where everyone owns their own transportation but I don't think that's because it's needed...a future where I can press a button on my phone and the car shows up, I get in, and take a nap or use my computer or something and then arrive at my destination later, without having to worry about licensing/taxes/maintenance/etc, seems like a home run.
I say this as a "car guy" that has several cars, it's one of my biggest hobbies.
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: esc to Arelor on Sun Sep 04 2022 02:39 pm
I think we've grown used to being in a world where everyone owns their transportation but I don't think that's because it's needed...a future where I can press a button on my phone and the car shows up, I get in, take a nap or use my computer or something and then arrive at my destination later, without having to worry about licensing/taxes/maintenance/etc, seems like a home run.
I'd be curious to see (or make) a cost analysis of owning a car vs. not owni nt; I like being able to get in my car and go wherever I want, when I want.
Nightfox
---
þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
nearby there are people who have no vehicles. they have to shop for food in I have 2 cars, i can drive someplace and get better food and more food for a
transportation you are fucked. only hipsters like it. real people can't s ---
esc wrote to Arelor <=-
The point is moot. We are past peak oil since 2019 so I predict in the near future people won t be able to afford private transport.
Is this so terrible? What's the point? A car is typically the
second biggest investment someone will make (after the home) and
it's one that is exceedingly likely to be a financial loss, and
it's something people spend a trivial amount of time actually
using (vs other large expenses).
I think we've grown used to being in a world where everyone owns
their own transportation but I don't think that's because it's
needed...a future where I can press a button on my phone and the
car shows up, I get in, and take a nap or use my computer or
something and then arrive at my destination later, without having
to worry about licensing/taxes/maintenance/etc, seems like a home
run.
I say this as a "car guy" that has several cars, it's one of my
biggest hobbies.
The mass production of cars, and the design of cities around that assumption that everyone has, or should have, a car was one of the biggest urban design mistakes that humanity has ever made. An utter disaster.
The car is overrated, a pain the ass and did to transportation what Windows did to computing. Popularised it but also retarded it.
The car's days are numbered, and electric cars are not the solution. We need to rethink transportation, and make cities human centric and not car centric.
You have to remember, autonomous vehicles will still need all the space and infrastructure that cars require.
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Sep 04 2022 08:12 am
thI'm in SW Michigan. From the shore of Lake Michigan we can see Chicago least Sears Tower and city skyline) from 60 miles away due west.
SWM is a tourist area. Wineries and Micro Breweries and Distillerys have taken over. FIPS have summer homes and invade every weekend. I94 is loaded with FIP cars and there is a long line going into Waren Dunes Stat Park.
i have no idea what a fucking fip is.
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: MRO to Arelor on Sun Sep 04 2022 08:14 am
in my country that shit wont fly. people only take so much bullshit until
americans love to take their cars out and drive around like idiots. i don
when i was at my old job, for a number of years i took public transportat my employer paid for it so i was like what the hell. in the morning i wo
that city supposely won awards for its great public transportation.
There is certainly a point there.
Government here has been pushing for people to give up private transport for ages, but the alternatives they offer just don't cut it. By this, I don't me they work worse, but that they just don't function - ie. the Junta would hav you give your car up and take the bus when you want a trip from the village the city, except there is no bus line for the trip to begin with.
Since they have made no progress erradicating cars, what they are doing inst is making private vehicless less usable so people turns to other means of transport. Ideas such as taxing certain roads so you don't dream of driving them down, closing streets to vehicles, etc. are thrown around. Still they don't offer a working alternative once the routes are closed to cars so the result isn't that people takes public transport, but that people stops circulating through afected areas.
I think it is no coincidence that the war on cars has become more gruesome j after BP's announcement that peak oil has been reached. I suspect administrations worthwhile are smelling the coffee and that they know they can't manage protestors on the streets angry because diesel prices have multiplied by two or three, so their plan is to get people used not to have transport before fuel becomes unaffordable. I don't even think electric cars are a planned substitute - they know they cannot replace combustion engines *everybody* with those - but they happen to be the carrot on the horizon to keep people walking forward as affordable cars are extinguished.
--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: Moondog to Arelor on Sun Sep 04 2022 08:25 am
Can a corporation do a better job maintaining a fleet of autonomous vehic compare to a city or county government? The rent a car industry seems to always have more modern cars in good shape.
Personally, I like having a personal car that won't get shut off because company's network can't see it due to poor cell reception or lack of rela cell partnerships.
I use plenty rental vehicles, so my opinion would be that a private rental fleet is more likely to be maintained than one operated by the administratio owever, that is not what I am talking about.
I am talking about the day in which manually driven vehicles become forbidde to the public for general use, and the public is expected to use automatic c instead. The pretext would be simple: "Automatic cars are safer and manual c get people killed." It is a very easy sell from the political point of view (asuming they can make autonomous cars that actually work).
However, the only thing you need to realize how disasterous such a thing wou be for the end consumer is to have a look at how the software industry and t whole Whatever-as-a-Service model is faring. Software and hardware developed actors hostile to the nations using them. Mission critical code written by identured workers in countries you would be uncapable of pointing at in a ma Functions the hardware includes which are locked behind paywalls and license agreements.
It is said that a technophile is a guy who likes to put microchips everywher in his life, and loves the idea that his fridge, toaster and lightbulbs are automated. It is also said that engineers know how really shitty this stuff gets so they have the toaster in chains just in case it decides to act funky When you see professional misson critical code written as:
if (true) {
statement
statement
}
or as
while (true) {
if (condition()) { break }
statement
}
then nobody is going to convince you that the people writing that code is go to be better at driving your car automatically than you XD
--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
Mro said to bex: <=-
Didn't read the rest of your snarky msg, but again, fuck off with a
Mro said to bex: <=-
progress??? wake up and smell what you are shoveling
Nice "Die Hard" But seriously, how do you think that science and
you depend on google too much. that quote isn't from die hard, try
Mro said to bex: <=-
[Deep breath] HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
[types name into twitlist.cfg] seeya, tryhard.
The car is overrated, a pain the ass and did to transportation what Windows did to computing. Popularised it but also retarded it.
The car's days are numbered, and electric cars are not the solution. We need to rethink transportation, and make cities human centric and not car centric.
Without a car, I think it would be a lot more difficult to get groceries, unless I used grocery delivery services to deliver grocies to my house (which add costs to buying groceries). I also like picking out my own fruits & vegetables & such, most of the time. There will also still be a need for larger vehicles for transporting large items such as furniture, home appliances, etc..
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: esc to Arelor on Sun Sep 04 2022 02:39 pm
Is this so terrible? What's the point? A car is typically the second bigg investment someone will make (after the home) and it's one that is exceedingly likely to be a financial loss, and it's something people spen trivial amount of time actually using (vs other large expenses).
I think we've grown used to being in a world where everyone owns their ow transportation but I don't think that's because it's needed...a future wh I can press a button on my phone and the car shows up, I get in, and take nap or use my computer or something and then arrive at my destination lat without having to worry about licensing/taxes/maintenance/etc, seems like home run.
I say this as a "car guy" that has several cars, it's one of my biggest hobbies.
The mass production of cars, and the design of cities around that assumption
The car is overrated, a pain the ass and did to transportation what Windows
The car's days are numbered, and electric cars are not the solution. We nee
You have to remember, autonomous vehicles will still need all the space and
The mass production of cars, and the design of cities around that assumption that everyone has, or should have, a car was one of the
biggest urban design mistakes that humanity has ever made. An utter disaster.
The car is overrated, a pain the ass and did to transportation what Windows did to computing. Popularised it but also retarded it.
The car's days are numbered, and electric cars are not the solution. We need to rethink transportation, and make cities human centric and not
car centric.
Yes, I think it is so terrible.
Strange. For most any "car guy" that I ever knew, doing at least *some* of the maintenance, and actually *DRIVING* the car were major points in *being* a car guy. I generally enjoy driving, a lot.
Also, your scenario above makes one a slave to the entity that owns and operates the automatic car, whether that's a private enterprise or a government. Either way is a scary thing, to me. I'm not eager to give away still more of my freedom and become dependent on something else.
I mentioned in other threads I live in the country, and road conditions involve uneven roads due to potholes and repaired potholes. Some roads are partial paved, and transistions from dirt to pavement or gravel canplace a car out of control if you're going too fast. i imagine conditions like these would make autonomous driving difficult. Same applies of there is a coat of snow on the road, and the ditches are covered so there's no telling where the sides of the road begin or end. GPS would be very important then, and bad weather would impair it's accuracy.
Arelor wrote to Irish_Monk <=-
Besides, given the current state of self-driving technology, I would consider the imposition of self-driving cars a step backwards, since it would place transport in the hands of corporations which would run your car from a network of edge servers. If you have heard complaints about corporations owning your computer instead of you owning your computer, this is just the same idea.
you're very wrong. infact, cars changed and improved society for the better. in the usa we even have our weekend due to car manufacturing.
The car is overrated, a pain the ass and did to transportation what Windows did to computing. Popularised it but also retarded it.
cars made everyting easier and better.
The car's days are numbered, and electric cars are not the solution. We need to rethink transportation, and make cities human centric and not car centric.
our entire world revolves around oil production, much of that going into our vehicles.
You have to remember, autonomous vehicles will still need all the space and infrastructure that cars require.
we already have that. we can also dedicate a lane just to autonomous vehicles. they did that in my region anyways for foxcon.
so i take it you don't OWN a vehicle?
Without a car, I think it would be a lot more difficult to get groceries, unless I used grocery delivery services to deliver grocies to my house (which add costs to buying groceries). I also like picking out my own fruits & vegetables & such, most of the time. There will also still be a need for larger vehicles for transporting large items such as furniture, home appliances, etc..Of course the car is useful, it just sucks when used as a universal means of transport. Sure, transporting furniture, driving to the country, this is best done by a car. Groceries, sometimes, but we have terrible urban design where the avialability of groceries is centralised to a few large supermarkets in commercial areas. Why not intersperce residential areas with commercial? More smaller corner general stores? I look at the new suburbs and weep. Houses laid out like carpet with a central "shopping centre" where all the shops are. A traffic snarl, shops lost in a sea of car park which you have to drive to get to because its a bit too far to walk. Wouldn't a store a couple of blocks away, evne if smaller, be easier?
Also, currently I have a fairly short drive to work. If I were to take public transportation to work, it would certainly also take longer for me to get to work.
Nightfox
Without a car, I think it would be a lot more difficult to get groceries, unless I used grocery delivery services to deliver grocies to my house (which add costs to buying groceries). I also like picking out my own fruits & vegetables & such, most of the time. There will also still be a need for larger vehicles for transporting large items such as furniture, home appliances, etc..
yeah, imagine carrying a case of bottled water and all your groceries from the bus stop to your door. it's a good workout, but tedious.
I agree now more than ever. The whole "work from home" thing should really put a nail in the coffin of much of the need for scores of people to commute for work. Fewer people commuting is a benefit to everyone, if only we could get management from previous generations to just accept remote work as a reality and move on :)
The car is overrated, a pain the ass and did to transportation what Windows did to computing. Popularised it but also retarded it.
Eh, I dunno. I love cars, I will probably always own cars. But for a lot of people, particularly young people, a car is more of a nuisance than anything else at this point. The rideshare app thing is an interesting interim solution, though I believe the markets will likely push us into a world where autonomous vehicles pick people up and drop people off more than traditional cars at some point.
The car's days are numbered, and electric cars are not the solution.
We need to rethink transportation, and make cities human centric and not
car centric.
The only reason I am doubtful here is because of the amount of infrastructure that would be required to rethink transportation to this degree. Having roads, highways, etc., will probably be a big consideration for how things evolve.
esc wrote to Gamgee <=-
Strange. For most any "car guy" that I ever knew, doing at least *some* of the maintenance, and actually *DRIVING* the car were major points in *being* a car guy. I generally enjoy driving, a lot.
I enjoy driving when doing it for fun, but I certainly don't
enjoy driving to the airport or the office in rush hour. I'd
gladly sit in an autonomous car in those circumstances.
Also, your scenario above makes one a slave to the entity that owns and operates the automatic car, whether that's a private enterprise or a government. Either way is a scary thing, to me. I'm not eager to give away still more of my freedom and become dependent on something else.
You already have to pay for gas, insurance, licensing, not to
mention the cost of a car that will (with infrequent exceptions)
only ever depreciate in value.
But I digress. The markets will
decide all of this and the markets will belong to the next
generation before long. And the next generation grew up spoiled
with Uber and Lyft and has less of a need for owning a car. They
have an entirely different frame of reference. The rate of
actually getting a driver's license is on a significant decline.
It's fascinating to watch.
The mass production of cars, and the design of cities around that assumption that everyone has, or should have, a car was one of the biggest urban design mistakes that humanity has ever made. An utter disaster.
I agree now more than ever. The whole "work from home" thing should really put a nail in the coffin of much of the need for scores of people to commute for work. Fewer people commuting is a benefit to everyone, if only we could
I do own a car. I'm not against cars completely, I'm saying that they have become necessary for EVERYTHING. Having to rely on a car to go anywhere is a nightmare. I have lived without a car, and in some cities it is viable, if they have good public transport and amenities nearby.
Cars made things easier? All things? Consider the cost of the car, fuel, insurance, registration, servicing, for the pleasure of sitting an hour each way in traffic because urban design was based on the car being the primary mode of transport. Do the calculation as to how many hours you would need to work to pay for the car and its infrastructure, and deduct that from the time you same. The advantage isn't as great as you might thing. No need to
is best done by a car. Groceries, sometimes, but we have terrible urban design where the avialability of groceries is centralised to a few large supermarkets in commercial areas. Why not intersperce residential areas with commercial? More smaller corner general stores? I look at the new
I agree now more than ever. The whole "work from home" thing should really put a nail in the coffin of much of the need for scores of people to commute for work. Fewer people commuting is a benefit to everyone, if only we could get management from previous generations to just accept remote work as a reality and move on :)
Eh, I dunno. I love cars, I will probably always own cars. But for a lot of people, particularly young people, a car is more of a nuisance than anything else at this point. The rideshare app thing is an interesting
I enjoy driving when doing it for fun, but I certainly don't enjoy driving to the airport or the office in rush hour. I'd gladly sit in an autonomous car in those circumstances.
i strip away the old debris
that hides a shining car
a brilliant red barchetta
from a better, vanished time
fire up the willing engine
responding with a roar
tires spitting gravel
i commit my weekly crime...
I enjoy driving when doing it for fun, but I certainly don't
enjoy driving to the airport or the office in rush hour. I'd
gladly sit in an autonomous car in those circumstances.
Not everybody lives in a large city. That's not an issue for many
folks.
I often do that, walk home with bags of groceries. I suppose we could all drive everywhere so we don't need to walk or exert ourselves. Probably explains all the obesity and poor health I see around me.
Personally, I like having a personal car that won't get shut off because the company's network can't see it due to poor cell reception or lack of related cell partnerships.
i have no idea what a fucking fip is.
F*cking Illinois Person. Not everybody from Illinois is one. You'll know them as soon you seen them driving on the road or when they open their mouths. They address the locals as if they were slack jawed yokels, and act like they own everything. In the movie The Great Outdoors, there is a scene where they introduce Dan Akroyd's character by showing the Illinois plate on the front of a Mercedes. Nearly everybody on the crowd yelled, "FIP!"
FIPS are Illinois tourists of the worst degree. It seems like everyone has at least one next door whose kids set off fireworks during work nights starting halfway through June until halfway through August. When the FIPS are in town, the prices all go up. The overpriced antiques stores along Red Arrow Hwy down by New Buffalo love them.
The mass production of cars, and the design of cities around that assumption that everyone has, or should have, a car was one of the biggest urban design mistakes that humanity has ever made. An utter disaster.
I agree now more than ever. The whole "work from home" thing should really p us generations to just accept remote work as a reality and move on :)
The car is overrated, a pain the ass and did to transportation what Windows did to computing. Popularised it but also retarded it.
Eh, I dunno. I love cars, I will probably always own cars. But for a lot of markets will likely push us into a world where autonomous vehicles pick peop
The car's days are numbered, and electric cars are not the solution. W need to rethink transportation, and make cities human centric and not car centric.
The only reason I am doubtful here is because of the amount of infrastructur
I mentioned in other threads I live in the country, and road conditions involve uneven roads due to potholes and repaired potholes. Some roads are partial paved, and transistions from dirt to pavement or gravel canplace a car out of control if you're going too fast. i imagine conditions like these would make autonomous driving difficult. Same applies of there is a coat of snow on the road, and the ditches are covered so there's no telling where the sides of the road begin or end. GPS would be very important then, and bad weather would impair it's accuracy.
You may be interested to know that the military is investing heavily into of
Moondog wrote to MRO <=-
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: MRO to Moondog on Sun Sep 04 2022 01:38 pm
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Sep 04 2022 08:12 am
thI'm in SW Michigan. From the shore of Lake Michigan we can see Chicago least Sears Tower and city skyline) from 60 miles away due west.
SWM is a tourist area. Wineries and Micro Breweries and Distillerys have taken over. FIPS have summer homes and invade every weekend. I94 is loaded with FIP cars and there is a long line going into Waren Dunes Stat Park.
i have no idea what a fucking fip is.
F*cking Illinois Person. Not everybody from Illinois is one. You'll
know them as soon you seen them driving on the road or when they open their mouths. They address the locals as if they were slack jawed
yokels, and act like they own everything. In the movie The Great Outdoors, there is a scene where they introduce Dan Akroyd's character
by showing the Illinois plate on the front of a Mercedes. Nearly everybody on the crowd yelled, "FIP!"
FIPS are Illinois tourists of the worst degree. It seems like everyone has at least one next door whose kids set off fireworks during work
nights starting halfway through June until halfway through August.
When the FIPS are in town, the prices all go up. The overpriced
antiques stores along Red Arrow Hwy down by New Buffalo love them.
yeah but companies don't want people to work from home.
the middle managment needs something to do.
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: esc to Gamgee on Mon Sep 05 2022 11:05 pm
I enjoy driving when doing it for fun, but I certainly don't enjoy driving to the airport or the office in rush hour. I'd gladly sit in an autonomous car in those circumstances.
I don't like driving in rush hour either. An autonomous car would make it easier, but I'd still rather not sit in a car during rush hour. I feel like being stuck in traffic is a waste of time.
Autumn in Door County is a goddamn nightmare. I'm pretty sure everyone from the north and northwest sides of Chicago drive up here over the course of a couple weeks.
DaiTengu
I've heard that since the covid lockdowns, some companies have actually wanted to go to working from home permanently, because it could save the company money since they wouldn't have to pay a lease on an office building & related costs anymore. But some companies do prefer their employees to come into the office.
I'd be curious to see (or make) a cost analysis of owning a car
vs. not owning one and using ride/taxi services. I wonder how
it would cost to continually use ride services and public
transportation vs. owning a car. Owning your own car is very
convenient; I like being able to get in my car and go wherever I
want, when I want.
Nightfox wrote to Gamgee <=-
I enjoy driving when doing it for fun, but I certainly don't
enjoy driving to the airport or the office in rush hour. I'd
gladly sit in an autonomous car in those circumstances.
Not everybody lives in a large city. That's not an issue for many
folks.
Yes, but many people do live in large urban areas, so it is an
issue for those people.
You already have to pay for gas, insurance, licensing, not to mention the co tion before long. And the next generation grew up spoiled with Uber and Lyft cinating to watch.
Nevertheless, neither you nor I will decide any of this, the markets will.
transport because we can just be lazy and assume everyone will drive everywh rban model. Urban sprawl and isolation.
People are rejecting this, preferring to live in the denser inner city, with
If you don't have to work in an office every day, or if you live near your work, then it's better to not have a car and ride share. If you commute over 30 minutes each way, and take road trips through the year
or travel more, you're better off having transportation.
There's the freedom matter as well, not to mention shopping becomes more constrained if you like to shop in stores.
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: Nightfox to Boraxman on Mon Sep 05 2022 01:49 pm
Without a car, I think it would be a lot more difficult to get groceries, unless I used grocery delivery services to deliver grocies to my house (which add costs to buying groceries). I also like picking out my own fru & vegetables & such, most of the time. There will also still be a need f larger vehicles for transporting large items such as furniture, home appliances, etc..
Also, currently I have a fairly short drive to work. If I were to take public transportation to work, it would certainly also take longer for me get to work.
NightfoxOf course the car is useful, it just sucks when used as a universal means of roceries is centralised to a few large supermarkets in commercial areas. Wh g centre" where all the shops are. A traffic snarl, shops lost in a sea of
We're sold on a fake efficiency. We don't really see the costs involved in
about our children outside the house. The car has many shortcomings that w
---
If you don't have to work in an office every day, or if you live near
your work, then it's better to not have a car and ride share. If you commute over 30 minutes each way, and take road trips through the year
or travel more, you're better off having transportation.
I've heard that since the covid lockdowns, some companies have actually wanted to go to working from home permanently, because it could save the company money since they wouldn't have to pay a lease on an office building & related costs anymore. But some companies do prefer their employees to come into the office.
The real issue with ridesharing is that oftentimes you end up waiting for the other rideshares to show up. Sometimes they don't show up and they don't bother to notify you. I used to rideshare a lot in the past and, while it cuts costs, it is such a pain in the ass at times. A regular bus line is so much better (if
it exists) despite the fact bus lines have a tendency to be poor solutions.
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: MRO to Boraxman on Mon Sep 05 2022 10:05 am
you're very wrong. infact, cars changed and improved society for the better. in the usa we even have our weekend due to car manufacturing.
The car is overrated, a pain the ass and did to transportation what Windows did to computing. Popularised it but also retarded it.
cars made everyting easier and better.
The car's days are numbered, and electric cars are not the solution. need to rethink transportation, and make cities human centric and not centric.
our entire world revolves around oil production, much of that going into vehicles.
You have to remember, autonomous vehicles will still need all the spac and infrastructure that cars require.
we already have that. we can also dedicate a lane just to autonomous vehicles. they did that in my region anyways for foxcon.
so i take it you don't OWN a vehicle?
I do own a car. I'm not against cars completely, I'm saying that they have ransport and amenities nearby.
Cars made things easier? All things? Consider the cost of the car, fuel, in alculation as to how many hours you would need to work to pay for the car an ic transport because we can just be lazy and assume everyone will drive ever an urban model. Urban sprawl and isolation.
People are rejecting this, preferring to live in the denser inner city, with
Without mass production and mass adoption of the car, we'd have better urban
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: Nightfox to Boraxman on Mon Sep 05 2022 01:49 pm
Without a car, I think it would be a lot more difficult to get groceries, unless I used grocery delivery services to deliver grocies to my house (which add costs to buying groceries). I also like picking out my own fru & vegetables & such, most of the time. There will also still be a need f larger vehicles for transporting large items such as furniture, home appliances, etc..
Also, currently I have a fairly short drive to work. If I were to take public transportation to work, it would certainly also take longer for me get to work.
NightfoxOf course the car is useful, it just sucks when used as a universal means of groceries is centralised to a few large supermarkets in commercial areas. W ing centre" where all the shops are. A traffic snarl, shops lost in a sea o
We're sold on a fake efficiency. We don't really see the costs involved in y about our children outside the house. The car has many shortcomings that
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon Sep 05 2022 04:22 pm
Without a car, I think it would be a lot more difficult to get groceri unless I used grocery delivery services to deliver grocies to my house (which add costs to buying groceries). I also like picking out my own fruits & vegetables & such, most of the time. There will also still b need for larger vehicles for transporting large items such as furnitur home appliances, etc..
yeah, imagine carrying a case of bottled water and all your groceries fro the bus stop to your door. it's a good workout, but tedious.
I often do that, walk home with bags of groceries. I suppose we could all d
Autumn in Door County is a goddamn nightmare. I'm pretty sure everyone
from the north and northwest sides of Chicago drive up here over the
course of a couple weeks.
it's funny when it's a little cold. they drive up and park on the frozen lakes for festivals and their cars sink in
https://wpcdn.us-east-1.vip.tn-cloud.net/www.news8000.com/content/uploads/ 2019/12/winterfestcars-jpg_4833136_ver1-0.jpg
yeah but companies don't want people to work from home.
the middle managment needs something to do.
A friend of mine is head of IT at a large staffing company. They monitor all their people. I've seen the dashboard. He has information of what exactly they are doing. It's better than looking over their shoulder. It shows time off task, how long they are writing emails, what programs
they have open. This accountant lady was playing an online game where
you grow pot a fucking day long.
working from home is great for the workers, but companies want to keep
an eye on their people.
If I mainly worked from home, I think I'd feel stir-crazy after a while. Sometimes I just like getting out in order to do something (such as
work). However, lately I do feel like I wouldn't mind working from home more often. I could do that with my job, but my employer prefers people to be in the office when possible.
How are cars a nuisance to young people?
I don't like driving in rush hour either. An autonomous car would make
it easier, but I'd still rather not sit in a car during rush hour. I
feel like being stuck in traffic is a waste of time.
Miltary GPS runs at a higher strength signal than commercial GPS. it is less a victim to really bad weather.
To the military, autonomous diving would be a great improvement.
Imagine a convo that is automonous. No drivers to be killed. Imagine
an ambulance thaty could run with the driver injured. Smaller utility vehicles could haul injured or more ammo to troops.
The markets are not an abstract entity floating in the sky. They are no Monopoly boards being played in an alternate dimension. The markets are
US buying and selling, plain and simple.
The new generations around here are not giving up on cars because of infrastructure concerns or because they are using
transport-as-a-service. They are not getting cars because they can't afford transport and it is therefore much more cost efficient for them
to borrow uncle Francisco's van when needed.
But then they cannot afford housing either and have to borrow it, and we don't say it is the end of houses.
You have to buy them, they cost a lot and are typically a horrible financial investment, you have to maintain them, license/pay taxes,
insure them, gas, etc...young people grew up in a world where a ride is given on demand when you use an app on your phone.
Yep, you and me both. I hate traffic. It's time I could be working or spending time with my family. To me a huge WFH/hybrid work schedule advantage is decreasing traffic...during the beginning of the pandemic lockdowns, driving anywhere at any time was an absolute joy lol.
of what exactly they are doing. It's better than looking over their shoulder. It shows time off task, how long they are writing emails, what programs
they have open. This accountant lady was playing an online game where you grow pot a fucking day long.
Businesses will have to evolve to focus on outcomes, i.e., did this person deliver on what they said they would. Companies that do this will have a difficult time attracting top talent. This equates to something people call "work theater" instead of actual work.
How are cars a nuisance to young people?
You have to buy them, they cost a lot and are typically a horrible financial investment, you have to maintain them, license/pay taxes, insure them, gas, etc...young people grew up in a world where a ride is given on demand when you use an app on your phone.
I often do that, walk home with bags of groceries. I suppose we could
all d
The nearest store to me is a Dollar General, and it is 7 miles away. Walking would take forever.
Housing is a smart investment; car ownership is not. This is not apples to apples.
esc wrote to Nightfox <=-
How are cars a nuisance to young people?
You have to buy them, they cost a lot and are typically a
horrible financial investment, you have to maintain them,
license/pay taxes, insure them, gas, etc...young people grew up
in a world where a ride is given on demand when you use an app on
your phone.
Moondog wrote to Boraxman <=-
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: Boraxman to esc on Mon Sep 05 2022 09:55 pm
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: esc to Arelor on Sun Sep 04 2022 02:39 pm
The car's days are numbered, and electric cars are not the solution. We nee
You have to remember, autonomous vehicles will still need all the space and
Everything in life is somewhere else, and you need a car to get there.
One of the very few positives of my job is I have a company vehicle.
Yes, it has a GPS and some other device that tracks speeds and probably everything else. But the good thing is, I work what we call 2nd shift, 1030am-7pm. My work truck leaves my driveway at 1030am and usually is pulling in my driveway at 7:01pm. So like you said, its more family time etc... and less miles on my personal truck....
well in this person's case her output was next to zero and she was complaining about not having time to do her duties. in actuality he was playing farmville all day long but it was pot.
Those same things apply to many things.. And regarding having to buy
them - Do young people these days expect to get things for free?
Also, I only remember the app-based ride services appearing within the last 10 years or so.. Unless they've been around longer, if someone is used to app-based ride services, they might not even be old enough to drive yet? Besides, taxi services have been around a lot longer and we haven't seen a bunch of people want to take taxis instead of owning
their own car. Taxis and things like Uber, Lyft, etc. can be expensive.
I don't think you can even really talk about a car as an investment. If you're buying a car to try to invest, then that's just a bad idea. A
car is meant to be used - The usefulness is in transportation, and if
you can make use of it, then I think you'll get its money's worth.
You are somehow equating *YOUR* experience/knowledge, which seems to be solely based on huge metropolitan areas (the Bay Area?). I can assure you that young people in my world do/did not grow up in a world where they get a ride with an app on their phone.
I say again: NOT EVERYONE LIVES IN A FREAKIN URBAN CRAP-HOLE!!!
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: esc to Boraxman on Mon Sep 05 2022 10:59 pm
The mass production of cars, and the design of cities around that assumption that everyone has, or should have, a car was one of the biggest urban design mistakes that humanity has ever made. An utter disaster.
I agree now more than ever. The whole "work from home" thing should reall put a nail in the coffin of much of the need for scores of people to comm for work. Fewer people commuting is a benefit to everyone, if only we cou
yeah but companies don't want people to work from home.
the middle managment needs something to do.
A friend of mine is head of IT at a large staffing company. They monitor all their people. I've seen the dashboard. He has information of what exactl playing an online game where you grow pot a fucking day long.
working from home is great for the workers, but companies want to keep an ey
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: Moondog to Arelor on Sun Sep 04 2022 08:25 am
Personally, I like having a personal car that won't get shut off becaus the company's network can't see it due to poor cell reception or lack o related cell partnerships.
Which reminds me. I bought a Lexus in 2018 (my wife's vehicle). It has a t
3G cellular networks.
3G is getting shut off in a few months, so all those features will just no l
Toyota (The Lexus parent company) thus far has refused to even offer any kin s able to do it via software) or hardware upgrades, others have a solution t
I shit you not, the cars that use 2G networks (older 2004-2010 models) will
I can't imagine how something like this would wreak havoc on an atonomous ve
DaiTengu
... The time to relax is when you don't have time for it.
You have to buy them, they cost a lot and are typically a horrible financial
Taxis can be expensive, sure, as can Ubers, but a car is typically the secon
I don't think you can even really talk about a car as an investment. I you're buying a car to try to invest, then that's just a bad idea. A car is meant to be used - The usefulness is in transportation, and if you can make use of it, then I think you'll get its money's worth.
Any financial advisor would tell you that purchasing a car is the single stu ake (after purchasing a house). The difference is, the house will appreciate orting.
You may think you get your money's worth, but more and more people are disag
to day work.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
* Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M
I do own a car. I'm not against cars completely, I'm saying that they have become necessary for EVERYTHING. Having to
rely on a car to go anywhere is a nightmare. I have lived without a car, and in some cities it is viable, if they have
good public transport and amenities nearby.
Cars made things easier? All things? Consider the cost of the car, fuel, insurance, registration, servicing, for the
pleasure of sitting an hour each way in traffic because urban design was based on the car being the primary mode of
transport. Do the calculation as to how many hours you would need to work to pay for the car and its infrastructure, and
deduct that from the time you same. The advantage isn't as great as you might thing. No need to
I've been without a car in my 20s. it sucked. I've been on both sides. Now I have 3 cars I can use. I'd never go back.
I already wrote down how much I spend on my cars and it's not much.
another thing is think how long you spend waiting for a bus to come by. In my case i had to leave really early to be there
on time. if i took a later bus i was very late.
I would never go without a car and I live in an urban area. I've also vacationed in areas where you absolutely need a
vehicle. It's an hour drive to get to anything. this is here dollar general in the usa thrives.
is best done by a car. Groceries, sometimes, but we have terrible urban design where the avialability of groceries is
centralised to a few large supermarkets in commercial areas. Why not intersperce residential areas with commercial?
More smaller corner general stores? I look at the new
That depends on the area. I'm about a 5 minute drive from my nearest grocery store, and in the past, I've generally lived
fairly close to a grocery store, so I think a lot of places are designed where that's the case. Where I live, many times
when I've seen residential areas far from a grocery store, it has usually been very rural areas where things are spread out
fairly far, or people living in farm communities where there isn't much around them but farm land, and that sort of thing.
Nightfox
I enjoy driving when doing it for fun, but I certainly don't enjoy driving to the airport or the office in rush hour.
I'd gladly sit in an autonomous car in those circumstances.
I don't like driving in rush hour either. An autonomous car would make it easier, but I'd still rather not sit in a car
during rush hour. I feel like being stuck in traffic is a waste of time.
Nightfox
transport because we can just be lazy and assume everyone will drive everywh rban model. Urban sprawl and isolation.
People are rejecting this, preferring to live in the denser inner city, with
It seems to me that your problem comes from living in an overpopulated area rather than because cars exist.
MOst people complaining about traffic issues and having to drive to work live in big cities. In Madrid so many people live
in suburbs and bedroom-neighbourhoods but they all decide to drive to the center of Madrid at once for work at dawn.
Mid and small sized towns just don't generate this environment. If you take the capitals of the Autonomies surrounding
Madrid, they are very much navegable without their administrations having taken any effort to make them navegable. In fact,
some are very navegable despite the fact their autonomies have worsened traffic by trying to manipulate it. Heck, Toledo
features middle-age style streets which are barely wide enough for a car, but there are not bad traffic issues because the
place is not massificated.
Without a car, I think it would be a lot more difficult to get groceries, unless I used grocery delivery services to
deliver grocies to my house (which add costs to buying groceries). I also like picking out my own fru & vegetables &
such, most of the time. There will also still be a need f larger vehicles for transporting large items such as
furniture, home appliances, etc..
Also, currently I have a fairly short drive to work. If I were to take public transportation to work, it would
certainly also take longer for me get to work.
NightfoxOf course the car is useful, it just sucks when used as a universal means of roceries is centralised to a few large
supermarkets in commercial areas. Wh g centre" where all the shops are. A traffic snarl, shops lost in a sea of
We're sold on a fake efficiency. We don't really see the costs involved in
about our children outside the house. The car has many shortcomings that w
---
The car is not necessary. During Spanish fascism there were lots of people who could not afford a car. If they wanted to go
to the market next town they just took a donkey and dedicated a whole day for the trip.
Places such as Madrid have convenience stores, grocery's and markets conveniently placed, but this does not void the need
for proper transport at all. In fact Madrid competes with Barcelona for the position as the Most Hostile City to Human Life
in Spain.
Without a car, I think it would be a lot more difficult to get groceries, unless I used grocery delivery services to
deliver grocies to my house (which add costs to buying groceries). I also like picking out my own fru & vegetables &
such, most of the time. There will also still be a need f larger vehicles for transporting large items such as
furniture, home appliances, etc..
Also, currently I have a fairly short drive to work. If I were to take public transportation to work, it would
certainly also take longer for me get to work.
NightfoxOf course the car is useful, it just sucks when used as a universal means of groceries is centralised to a few large
supermarkets in commercial areas. W ing centre" where all the shops are. A traffic snarl, shops lost in a sea o
We're sold on a fake efficiency. We don't really see the costs involved in y about our children outside the house. The
car has many shortcomings that
Supermarkets killed the general stores, and the big box stores and malls killed downtown. why go to the overpriced store with limited inventory when the specialty stores at the mall or plaza have
better prices and better variety? the little stores can only compete if they are more than just a retailer. They have to
offer services the big stores don't have. i would go to a local gun shop over going to a Cabelas or Dunhams for getting
better information or gunsmithing services. If i wanted cheap ammo that only a
giant corporation could offer because it could buy in larger volumes than mom and pop could ever afford, the big box is my
choice.
Im sure there could be a lot of different outcomes. But it would be interesting if someone bought/used a car for a certain
amount a time. Added that all up. And then for the same amount of time just used services like UBER or whatever and added
that up.Trying to stick to the same routine roughly. I wonder what would actually cost more? My kids have used UBER quite a
bit, I have never, So I dont really know the costs, sometimes when they would tell me real quick about the ride and how much
it cost, I thought it was expensive, but then sometimes it seemed they got a really good deal. Not sure why. Cars are very
expensive, like you said, when adding _EVERYTHING_ up, its more than you think..
|10I|02rish_|10M|02onk
... A program is used to turn data into error messages.
I don't think you can even really talk about a car as an investment. If you're buying a car to try to invest, then that's
just a bad idea. A car is meant to be used - The usefulness is in transportation, and if you can make use of it, then I
think you'll get its money's worth.
Nightfox
Nightfox
Our family car cost $37K. Have that for 20 years, max, that is nearly $2000
esc wrote to Gamgee <=-
You are somehow equating *YOUR* experience/knowledge, which seems to be solely based on huge metropolitan areas (the Bay Area?). I can assure
you that young people in my world do/did not grow up in a world where
they get a ride with an app on their phone.
I'm equating data, because in the world where I work, data is
what drives things, not anecdotes from me or you or anyone else.
Young people in your world will probably still buy cars, young
people in urban environments are trending in the opposite
direction, and there are more young people in urban environments
than anywhere else.
I say again: NOT EVERYONE LIVES IN A FREAKIN URBAN CRAP-HOLE!!!
Why are you being so combative, anyway? Nobody attacked you or
where you live. Don't be such a snowflake ;)
Nightfox wrote to Moondog <=-
The nearest store to me is a Dollar General, and it is 7 miles away. Walking would take forever.
He was talking about taking public transportation. Does your
town not have any public transportation?
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: Moondog to Boraxman on Tue Sep 06 2022 07:12 pm
I often do that, walk home with bags of groceries. I suppose we could
all d
The nearest store to me is a Dollar General, and it is 7 miles away. Walking would take forever.
He was talking about taking public transportation. Does your town not have any public transportation?
no 45+ minute gaps between meetings for me to drive to work. Someone gave me grief about it today. It's frustrating. Granted he had his first meeting at 7am and he lives an hour from the office, but he also is young and doesn't have a family and he thinks that type of pace/commitment is acceptable.
I'll continue to act in defiance out of what I believe to be correct and am happy to defend my position if push comes to shove.
well in this person's case her output was next to zero and she was complaining about not having time to do her duties. in actuality he was playing farmville all day long but it was pot.
Haha. Damn. Wonder if she think she can ask for a letter of recommendation. What a bozo.
People graduating from college now are people that aren't as interested in car ownership, to put it in perspective. People that came of age during an
Taxis can be expensive, sure, as can Ubers, but a car is typically the second biggest investment a person will make, and it's one that will be a money pit every single time. *shrug*
Any financial advisor would tell you that purchasing a car is the single stupidest thing most people do with their money. It is an investment when you consider how much it costs, and the fact that it's typically the second biggest purchase a person will make (after purchasing a house). The difference is, the house will appreciate, the car will depreciate. The car is useful for transportation but there are alternatives, which is I think the thing I'm trying to convey that the market is trending toward supporting.
You cannot manage what you cannot measure. some managers take this too seriously, and expect employees to account for every second they do with factory workers. Funny thing is some line workers could actually benefit from itemizing every task. Boxing and unboxing parts draws away from producti vity. Equipment maintenence and cleaning also draws away time. Stupid meetin gs that are not porduction oriented takes away time. Itemization will
Are we getting our moneys worth? How long do I spend at work to earn that money? The car saves me time here and there, but I have to spend a LOT of time to earn the money to pay for it.
Based on this, it doesn't seem that great after all.
Rural areas are of course different, but Australia is quite urbanised. In fact, I don't think I've ever lived anywhere which wasn't a walk from the shops, or at least a short walk from what used to be a corner store.
Any financial advisor would tell you that purchasing a car is the single stupidest thing most people do with their money. It is an investment when you consider how much it costs, and the fact that it's typically the second biggest purchase a person will make (after purchasing a house). The difference is, the house will appreciate, the car will depreciate. The car is useful for transportation but there are alternatives, which is I think the thing I'm trying to convey that the market is trending toward supporting.
Transport-as-a-service has been available for decades on your phone. We used to call it "taxi cab". It didn't make much of a dent on private transport.
Transport-as-a-service has been available for decades on your phone. We used to call it "taxi cab". It didn't make much of a dent on private transport.
Everybody here is talking about transport-as-a-service killing private transport, but here is this:
The government is also on a crusade against non-taxi transport as a service, so I really don't see it gaining much traction out of big, big, big cities (which should be avoided like the plague anyway).
Something that saves you money is not a money pit if it saves you from throwing even more money at different money pits.
Finantial advisors here usually tell you to own your main means of production instead of renting them. A fleet of trucks you own may devaluate. A fleet of trucks you rent is worth nothing at all after the money is gone.
Besides, I doubt a car is the second biggest investment people makes
since mid-to-high level education is more expensive, setting a corner business is more expensive, and healthcare that actually works is also more expensive (in the long run). I certainly spend more keeping my business up, in housing and in taxes than I spend in the car (and I am talking orders of magnitude here).
If I mainly worked from home, I think I'd feel stir-crazy after a while Sometimes I just like getting out in order to do something (such as work). However, lately I do feel like I wouldn't mind working from hom more often. I could do that with my job, but my employer prefers peopl to be in the office when possible.
To each his own, and I agree that full time WFH is not doable for a lot of p
businesses evolve to give employees more of a choice.
How are cars a nuisance to young people?
You have to buy them, they cost a lot and are typically a horrible financial ne.
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: Moondog to Boraxman on Tue Sep 06 2022 07:12 pm
I often do that, walk home with bags of groceries. I suppose we could
all d
The nearest store to me is a Dollar General, and it is 7 miles away. Walking would take forever.
He was talking about taking public transportation. Does your town not have
Nightfox
One of the very few positives of my job is I have a company vehicle. Yes, it has a GPS and some other device that tracks speeds and probably everything else. But the good thing is, I work what we call 2nd shift, 1030am-7pm. My work truck leaves my driveway at 1030am and usually is pulling in my driveway at 7:01pm. So like you said, its more family tim etc... and less miles on my personal truck....
Ah, nice. I live 45 mins (give or take) from my office and I work at a tech
and my final meeting was 4:30pm, and there were no 45+ minute gaps between o is young and doesn't have a family and he thinks that type of pace/commitm
I'll continue to act in defiance out of what I believe to be correct and am
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: esc to Nightfox on Tue Sep 06 2022 09:17 pm
I don't think you can even really talk about a car as an investment. you're buying a car to try to invest, then that's just a bad idea. car is meant to be used - The usefulness is in transportation, and i you can make use of it, then I think you'll get its money's worth.
Any financial advisor would tell you that purchasing a car is the single ake (after purchasing a house). The difference is, the house will appreci orting.
You may think you get your money's worth, but more and more people are di
to day work.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
* Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M
Finantial advisors here usually tell you to own your main means of productio instead of renting them. A fleet of trucks you own may devaluate. A fleet of trucks you rent is worth nothing at all after the money is gone.
Transport renting is something firms here do when their accountant tells the they need to get rid of money with expenses that can be justified.
Besides, I doubt a car is the second biggest investment people makes since mid-to-high level education is more expensive, setting a corner business is more expensive, and healthcare that actually works is also more expensive (i the long run). I certainly spend more keeping my business up, in housing and taxes than I spend in the car (and I am talking orders of magnitude here).
/S
--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
Not being combative, just trying to get you to open your eyes wide
enough to see past the concrete and glass skyscrapers. There's more to the world than that.
you should let your leadership know how you feel. some places go nuts with the meetings. I worked at a place that had me come in for useless circlejerk meetings on my days off.... when i should have been sleeping because i worked nights. they said 'atleast you're getting paid'. So i was basically there while middle managment guys were showing a lot of stuff that didn't apply to me, or stuff that really could have been an email.
and with today's job market if you don't like what your company does you can always just go to another one. get it while it lasts.
Yes. If owning a car is such a bad investment, then why isn't everyone taking taxis, Uber, Lyft, and public transit?
Now expand that thinking a little, and place yourself on a long straight road running as far as the eye can see alongside a cornfield in Iowa, or
the brown farmland in Idaho, or a white winter in Nowhere, North Dakota.
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: esc to Nightfox on Tue Sep 06 2022 09:17 pm
Any financial advisor would tell you that purchasing a car is the single stupidest thing most people do with their money. It is an investment when you consider how much it costs, and the fact that it's typically the seco biggest purchase a person will make (after purchasing a house). The difference is, the house will appreciate, the car will depreciate. The ca is useful for transportation but there are alternatives, which is I think the thing I'm trying to convey that the market is trending toward supporting.
i'm in a big urban area and to make good money i need to have a car. I'm no ---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
The government has been on a crusade against rideshare drivers being contrac
Anyway, I'm not here to argue the virtues of living in one place vs another,
Something that saves you money is not a money pit if it saves you from throwing even more money at different money pits.
Again in this thread you provide several anecdotes which are interesting but
Finantial advisors here usually tell you to own your main means of production instead of renting them. A fleet of trucks you own may devaluate. A fleet of trucks you rent is worth nothing at all after the money is gone.
Sure, but we're talking about everyday people and not someone dealing with a
Besides, I doubt a car is the second biggest investment people makes since mid-to-high level education is more expensive, setting a corner business is more expensive, and healthcare that actually works is also more expensive (in the long run). I certainly spend more keeping my business up, in housing and in taxes than I spend in the car (and I am talking orders of magnitude here).
Regarding education, fair point. But I was speaking in terms of an investmen
Again I'm talking about data here, "health care that actually works" and "ke
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
* Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M
Most of the places I worked at leased their IT assets and leased vehicles so we could move equipment from site to site. We were paying more to lease the machines than if we owned them, but the financial folks were looking at capital gains if we owned the equipment. Of course the firm we leased out assets from was a subsidiary of the company, but it was a legal form of work ound.
Everything in life is somewhere else, and you need a car to get there.
my uncle has a country place
that no one knows about
he says it used to be a farm
before the motor law
on sundays i elude the eyes
and hop the turbine freight
to fall outside the wire
where my white haired uncle waits...
i strip away the old debris
that hides a shining car
a brilliant red barchetta
from a better, vanished time
fire up the willing engine
responding with a roar
tires spitting gravel
i commit my weekly crime...
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: Moondog to Boraxman on Mon Sep 05 2022 05:23 pm
Everything in life is somewhere else, and you need a car to get there.
Not necessarily. Many people in dense urban environments (big cities) live their lives very fully without needing to own their own car.
i worked at places that tried to track every single thing but it just
made everything 2x more work for everyone. plus they couldn't keep
people because they were seen as so strict. I'd rather work at a place that didn't track me and looked at the bottom line.
Any financial advisor would tell you that purchasing a car is
the single stupidest thing most people do with their money. It
is an investment when you consider how much it costs, and the
fact that it's typically the second biggest purchase a person
will make (after purchasing a house).
Transport-as-a-service has been available for decades on your phone.
We used to call it "taxi cab". It didn't make much of a dent on
private transport.
Yes. If owning a car is such a bad investment, then why isn't
everyone taking taxis, Uber, Lyft, and public transit?
Most of the places I worked at leased their IT assets and leased
vehicles so we could move equipment from site to site. We were paying
more to lease the machines than if we owned them, but the financial
folks were looking at capital gains if we owned the equipment. Of
course the firm we leased out assets from was a subsidiary of the
company, but it was a legal form of workaround.
Fair enough, but I'll say again that the overall data and trends are
what drives the markets to change, and the data overwhelmingly points
to a decline for desire of car ownership :)
Yeah, I have been doing so and continue to. It's frustrating but it's
not forever. Once this company IPOs I'll begin looking at other
options in earnest.
...
Totally. I'm sticking around here for now in spite of any frustrations really because I want a big payout, so I'm holding out hope that it
happens sooner rather than later hehe. I think after this I'm going to
work for myself, I'm growing sick of working for other people.
A finantial advisor I used to know would advise you not to won the car, but to
build a phantom company that owned the car, so you could get tax deductions for
the car \o/
esc wrote to Gamgee <=-
Not being combative, just trying to get you to open your eyes wide
enough to see past the concrete and glass skyscrapers. There's more to the world than that.
Fair enough, but I'll say again that the overall data and trends
are what drives the markets to change, and the data
overwhelmingly points to a decline for desire of car ownership :)
Arelor wrote to Gamgee <=-
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: Gamgee to esc on Wed Sep 07 2022 07:42 am
Now expand that thinking a little, and place yourself on a long straight road running as far as the eye can see alongside a cornfield in Iowa, or
the brown farmland in Idaho, or a white winter in Nowhere, North Dakota.
So much stuff to see, so little time. If they had an
advertisement like that in some travel agency, I would fall for
it :-)
Nightfox wrote to Arelor <=-
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: Arelor to esc on Wed Sep 07 2022 04:00 am
Transport-as-a-service has been available for decades on your phone. We used to call it "taxi cab". It didn't make much of a dent on private transport.
Yes. If owning a car is such a bad investment, then why isn't
everyone taking taxis, Uber, Lyft, and public transit?
esc wrote to Nightfox <=-
Yes. If owning a car is such a bad investment, then why isn't everyone taking taxis, Uber, Lyft, and public transit?
Use in these types of services are on a significant rise
So much stuff to see, so little time. If they had an advertisement like that in some travel agency, I would fall for it :-)
A finantial advisor I used to know would advise you not to won the car, but to build a phantom company that owned the car, so you could get tax deductions for the car \o/
The proof is in the pudding. When COVID-19 hit, it was businesses which heavily relied in rented assets which got wiped. If you owned the emplacement where your bar was located, you closed up and looked for something else to do, expecting to reopen the bar once the crisis was over. If you didn't own the emplacement, you closed the bar for good because you didn't have an emplacement to go back to, yet you could not afford to keep paying the rent.
It applies to so many assets. Lots of IT firms have gone down the drain because they ussed rented cloud assets which they lost to ToS conflicts, or whose conditions were changed by the provider, and they didn't have
the resources to bounce back.
People paying rent were pouring resources in stuff that disappeared. People purchasing stuff poured resources in things that stayed.
A car should not be thought of as an investment, at least not regarding how people think about investments. It's better to think of it as a
tool that will wear, break and (usually) depreciate in value over time until it's only worth scrap or salvage.
It's about the opportunity that a car gives you, and the entertainment value, assuming you enjoy driving. It allows you to have flexibility in terms of when/where/how you do things that are outside your immediate area. It also allows you to calculate the costs in a more consistent
way than service/delivery fees on demand. The absolute costs are not always better than the alternatives.
I'm kind of in a similar boat... took a job last year that includes a healthy amount of RSUs that are granted over the next few years... until IPO, really doesn't mean anything... if there's a 10x growth by the time I cash out, it could be retirement money and I could work on stuff I
want to do. I'd probably still do work for/with other people, just less concerned about the money and more about the job/satisfaction.
Right now, I'm very well paid for far less flexibility and autonomy than I'm used to and it's beyond frustrating and disheartening.
I don't ever plan to stop working, even if I had the money to do so... I'd be more inclined to focus on what I want to do and less on what others want.
Also fair enough, and I don't doubt that car sales will decrease in coming times. That will be due to the big-city population's decline in desire, but will not affect "country" folk in any significant way, because there isn't any realistic alternative for them.
Hahaha! I have seen all of those things, and more! But I do agree with you, there is still plenty not seen (yet). I have not yet been to
Spain, although my daughter lived there (Sevilla and Rota) for 2-3 years and loved it. I'll get there one day.
Before you say "that's just an anecdote"... it isn't. It's DATA that I see with my own eyes, and get from my own conversations and interactions with people. It's not made up, and it's not hearsay. It's fact.
i wouldn't say it's many people.
and perhaps they just adapted to being so limited.
there's many people that WORK in DC and ny and commute there via cars.
Our family car cost $37K. Have that for 20 years, max, that is nearly $2000
Are those American Dollar, or Australian Dollar?
I am paying around 400 eur per year for full-risk insurance for my car. It is not particularly old. Also no parking fees since I just station it in front of a corn field next to my house XD
Are we getting our moneys worth? How long do I spend at work to earn that money? The car saves me time here and there, but I have to spend a LOT of time to earn the money to pay for it.
Based on this, it doesn't seem that great after all.
okay, take your 2 cars to a scrap yard and get them crushed.
then you are free. tell us how you are doing in one month.
I bet it won't be so great.
you didnt HAVE to car at that price. you could have got a used one for half the cost.
Any financial advisor would tell you that purchasing a car is the single stupidest thing most people do with their money. It is an investment when you consider how much it costs, and the fact that it's typically the seco biggest purchase a person will make (after purchasing a house). The difference is, the house will appreciate, the car will depreciate. The ca is useful for transportation but there are alternatives, which is I think the thing I'm trying to convey that the market is trending toward supporting.
i'm in a big urban area and to make good money i need to have a car. I'm no ---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
A finantial advisor I used to know would advise you not to won the car, but to build a phantom company that owned the car, so you could get tax deductions for the car \o/
--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
This is basically why I lease cars. The reason I put it in terms of being an investment is because people that advocate for car ownership do so because of an idea of owning something after paying for it, and not treating it like a consumable.
Used cars aren't that much cheaper now.
You also seem confused. I'm saying
the problem is RELIANCE on cars. You're just repeating the very point I'm making back at me.
We have to have two cars because 20th century industrialised urban design made this waste necessary. We need to think of better design, so it is feasible for us to go to one car and run it less.
I know it wasn't you who said a car is a bad investment... But that's
all wrong anyway. A car is not an investment at all. It's a TOOL that
is used to make life easier, like any other tool. Like a pair of
pliers, or a smartphone, or a piece of software. It's not *MEANT* to increase in value. When it wears out, you buy a new one. Just like you would with a coffee maker, or a toaster.
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: esc to Arelor on Wed Sep 07 2022 10:30 am
Finantial advisors here usually tell you to own your main means of production instead of renting them. A fleet of trucks you own may devaluate. A fleet of trucks you rent is worth nothing at all after money is gone.
Sure, but we're talking about everyday people and not someone dealing wit
Besides, I doubt a car is the second biggest investment people makes since mid-to-high level education is more expensive, setting a corne business is more expensive, and healthcare that actually works is al more expensive (in the long run). I certainly spend more keeping my business up, in housing and in taxes than I spend in the car (and I talking orders of magnitude here).
Regarding education, fair point. But I was speaking in terms of an invest
Again I'm talking about data here, "health care that actually works" and
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
* Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M
The argument that a fleet of trucks you own won't disappear the same way as you rent is adjustable to different scopes. A bicycle you own will still be useful ages after you have paid for it. A bicycle you don't own will vanish a puff smoke, taking all your money with it, once you stop paying the rent.
Education is an investment and it also has a big potential to devaluate if y are unlucky. If some folk from the government decides your degree is no long good enough for the tasks you are performing, your degree devaluates. That stuff happens. If the education is actually good then it might still be usef but the papers themselves are only as valuable as the Guild Mafias and politicians allow them to be.
Healthcare that works is far from being an anecdote and I know for a fact patients at $workplace are paying much more for their insurance policies tha my friends or I (and most people I know) pay for a car. Hint: social securit taxes are also an insurance policy (by the look of trends since last year, i looks like it is a scammy one, but that is a different subject).
People building upo their own business is far from being anecdotic. There ar more family businesses on street level than there are big franchises and surfaces, by orders of magnitude. Plus, many instances of a franchise are paid by the entepreneour opening the instance anyway.
But let's keep the argument further and assume that purchasing assets that devaluate is stupid. In that case, I will let you know that bananas devaluat quite quickl¤y. Therefore, according to your logic, purchasing a banana and extracting value out of it before it becomes useless is stupid and everybody should be purchasing foods that gain in value (such as wine).
Good luck feeding of wine only. DOing that, however, would be stupid: it is wiser to let the wine go up in price instead of drinking it. You'll starve t death but the investment will be very smart.
--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: Moondog to Arelor on Wed Sep 07 2022 11:44 am
Most of the places I worked at leased their IT assets and leased vehicles we could move equipment from site to site. We were paying more to lease machines than if we owned them, but the financial folks were looking at capital gains if we owned the equipment. Of course the firm we leased ou assets from was a subsidiary of the company, but it was a legal form of w ound.
TBH it is quite fine to lease stuff you can afford to lose. If an IT company does not rely heavily on something it might make sense to rent instead. Most the times I see it done it is for tax engineering, which is quite an artific reason IMO.
There is a reason why some healthcare services I know have leased cars and leased IT, but they don't lease the surgery rooms or the radiodiagnostics equipment.
This reminds me of a firm which was delivering spam in order to promote thei products. I contacted their email provider (which was outsourced) and they l ALL their email infrastructure when the email provider kicked them out. It turns out that delivering advertisements was so importantr for this company that they kept phoning into my office for a whole week asking me to tell the email provider it had been a misunderstanding - and they eventually had to g with a different provider, whose prices were much worse by the look of their websites.
--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: Moondog to Boraxman on Mon Sep 05 2022 05:23 pm
Everything in life is somewhere else, and you need a car to get there.
Not necessarily. Many people in dense urban environments (big cities) live t --
digital man (rob)
Sling Blade quote #6:
Karl: he should've had a chance to grow up. He would had fun some time. Norco, CA WX: 101.8øF, 31.0% humidity, 0 mph E wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
On 9/7/22 09:10, Nightfox wrote:
Transport-as-a-service has been available for decades on your phone.
We used to call it "taxi cab". It didn't make much of a dent on
private transport.
Yes. If owning a car is such a bad investment, then why isn't
everyone taking taxis, Uber, Lyft, and public transit?
I think it's mostly about population density... it makes more sense in
areas with greater density and lower ground travel necessary. In more sprawling cities like CA, TX, AZ it's much harder to persist on ride services and public transit.
--
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
On 9/7/22 03:36, esc wrote:
Fair enough, but I'll say again that the overall data and trends are
what drives the markets to change, and the data overwhelmingly points
to a decline for desire of car ownership :)
Of course.. you can get most of what you need delivered to you the same
or next day at marginal additional cost (Amazon). I think the likes of Grubhub/Uber-Eats and similar are in a tough spot short of autonomous vehicles and drones for doorstep drop-off by comparison.
That said, there's a cost to society for these things and people not
leaving their homes. The increase in "social anxiety" is palpable to
say the least, and by all metrics the only way around it is to actually
get out and do things, not drugs, not therapy.
I think if I were the likes of Walmart/Amazon, I'd actually be investing
in larger/denser construction projects, using pod/floor systems like
high rises in the middle east. Building with a few hundred apartments, Whole Foods and Starbucks in the building including amazon returns/drop.
Get that population density up, own/control the market and increase dependency. While reducing last mile delivery costs. For western US cities, sprawling parking lot.. for other locations, multi-floor
garage... developed with 1.8 spaces per unit, each rented separately.
Not that it's what I want personally, just where my mind would be if I
had the funds to make such a thing happen.
--
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
Also fair enough, and I don't doubt that car sales will decrease in coming times. That will be due to the big-city population's decline in desire, but will not affect "country" folk in any significant way, because there isn't any realistic alternative for them.
Yeah, true. We have business in Germany and it's interesting how different p rban centers are structured, and how populations are distributed.
I am sad to say that autonomy is going to render a lot of country work redun all proportion of people will reap the majority of any financial upside. All nclusion.
So yes, I can see why this financial advice would be given. Buying a bigger house than you need isn't a bad investment, you'll see its value rise, get more utility. Buying a bigger car, you still lose heaps of value, but get little in return.
Digital Man wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
on sundays i elude the eyes
and hop the turbine freight
to fall outside the wire
Nice reference. One correction: "To *far* outside the Wire".
I think if I were the likes of Walmart/Amazon, I'd actually be investing
in larger/denser construction projects, using pod/floor systems like
high rises in the middle east. Building with a few hundred apartments,
Whole Foods and Starbucks in the building including amazon returns/drop.
Get that population density up, own/control the market and increase
dependency. While reducing last mile delivery costs. For western US
cities, sprawling parking lot.. for other locations, multi-floor
garage... developed with 1.8 spaces per unit, each rented separately.
Not that it's what I want personally, just where my mind would be if I
had the funds to make such a thing happen.
The concept of self-contained cities has been around for as long as I can reme
mber. A poor example would be the building in the movie Dredd, but the concept is there. Imagine a large self-contained complex with all the stores yoi'd want to visit, a health clinic, a gym, police and fire, and several buisnesses along with housing. Throw in a school as well, and a person can live and work their entire live in one building. Well, that's the idea...
Let's say the demand for jobs or variety of job skills surpasses what is offered and can possibly be staffed internally. That means working outside the complex. How about the clinic needs an MRI tech and cannot source one internally. Someone is drving or riding in from somewhere else. It's not too big a deal since each mega complex has it's own transit station. It draws away from the convenience of being all in one building.
On the down side, let's go back to the example in the movie Dredd. A criminal element moves in, or the place becomes a shithole that is not well maintained. The folks who can afford to leave and the good shops and industries pull out, which forces the police force to get defunded and cannot keep up with the crime level in the complex. You can offer incentives for police to get cheap housing, but who with a family will want to bring their family there?
well the world went to shit in the last 2 years. i'm looking at the used car site i use and prices are a BIT higher for used cars, but not real bad. just wait it out
You also seem confused. I'm saying
the problem is RELIANCE on cars. You're just repeating the very point I'm making back at me.
i'm not confused. you are being extremely abstract.
we need cars. they are useful tools. it's not a problem.
i'm a problem solver and I don't get attached to things. if my cars were a problem i would get rid of them.
I don't want to walk to work and i don't want to carry my groceries from the store to my house.
We have to have two cars because 20th century industrialised urban design made this waste necessary. We need to think of better design, so it is feasible for us to go to one car and run it less.
move someplace where you can accomplish this.
Cost benefit ratio is ALWAYS a considering. The fact it is a tool makes little difference.I know it wasn't you who said a car is a bad investment... But that's all wrong anyway. A car is not an investment at all. It's a TOOL that is used to make life easier, like any other tool. Like a pair of pliers, or a smartphone, or a piece of software. It's not *MEANT* to increase in value. When it wears out, you buy a new one. Just like you would with a coffee maker, or a toaster.
Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking. People buy cars because they're a tool, and their usefulness is transportation (not as an investment).
So yes, I can see why this financial advice would be given. Buying a bigger house than you need isn't a bad investment, you'll see its value rise, get more utility. Buying a bigger car, you still lose heaps of value, but get little in return.
well it depends on where you live. in my region they keep accessing the properties higher and higher. that's how they make money. they jack up the property taxes.
if you keep paying so much per year in property taxes, your investment devalues unless your gameplan is to flip it and sell it.
move someplace where you can accomplish this.
Why should I move? If there is a problem, it should be fixed. Running away from problems doesn't solve them.
Even if I move, the same issue will follow me there.
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: MRO to Boraxman on Thu Sep 08 2022 04:55 pm
So yes, I can see why this financial advice would be given. Buying a bigger house than you need isn't a bad investment, you'll see its valu rise, get more utility. Buying a bigger car, you still lose heaps of value, but get little in return.
well it depends on where you live. in my region they keep accessing the properties higher and higher. that's how they make money. they jack up t property taxes.
if you keep paying so much per year in property taxes, your investment devalues unless your gameplan is to flip it and sell it.
Houses generally don't go down in value. Cars almost always go down in valu l part of the investment too. We have to pay for all that as well.
Re: Re: Apollo 11Moving doesn't solve a problem. The problem remains if you live there or not. I live in an area where there are less than 10 houses per mile. Cable will
By: Boraxman to MRO on Fri Sep 09 2022 11:57 pm
move someplace where you can accomplish this.
Why should I move? If there is a problem, it should be fixed. Running a from problems doesn't solve them.
that's probably what the ethiopians think.
Even if I move, the same issue will follow me there.
i think you are correct. you can't ditch yourself.
So yes, I can see why this financial advice would be given. Buying a bigger house than you need isn't a bad investment, you'll see its valu rise, get more utility. Buying a bigger car, you still lose heaps of value, but get little in return.
well it depends on where you live. in my region they keep accessing the properties higher and higher. that's how they make money. they jack up t property taxes.
if you keep paying so much per year in property taxes, your investment devalues unless your gameplan is to flip it and sell it.
Houses generally don't go down in value. Cars almost always go down in valu l part of the investment too. We have to pay for all that as well.
A car is a consumable product. A house is not unless you own a trailer home.
By: Boraxman to MRO on Fri Sep 09 2022 11:57 pm
move someplace where you can accomplish this.
Why should I move? If there is a problem, it should be fixed.
Running a from problems doesn't solve them.
that's probably what the ethiopians think.
Even if I move, the same issue will follow me there.
i think you are correct. you can't ditch yourself.Moving doesn't solve a problem. The problem remains if you live there or not. I live in an area where there are less than 10 houses per mile. Cable will
not run lines where there are less than 10 houses per half mile. People tell me to move, however the problem remains for those who live out there.
well it depends on where you live. in my region they keep accessing the properties higher and higher. that's how they make money. they jack up the property taxes.
if you keep paying so much per year in property taxes, your investment devalues unless your gameplan is to flip it and sell it.
i think you are correct. you can't ditch yourself.
Moving doesn't solve a problem. The problem remains if you live there or not. I live in an area where there are less than 10 houses per mile. Cable will
not run lines where there are less than 10 houses per half mile. People tell me to move, however the problem remains for those who live out there.
there.
That and I like civilisation. "Going bush" isn't an option for me. I make good money working in the city, money I would never make if I ran away from the problems of the city.
well it depends on where you live. in my region they keep accessing the properties higher and higher. that's how they make money. they jack up the property taxes.
if you keep paying so much per year in property taxes, your investment devalues unless your gameplan is to flip it and sell it.
Almost like you cant win either way. Value goes up, taxes go up. I try not to be negative, but man, it just seems like the system is setup where cant succeed.
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: Moondog to Boraxman on Fri Sep 09 2022 08:07 pm
So yes, I can see why this financial advice would be given. Buy a bigger house than you need isn't a bad investment, you'll see valu rise, get more utility. Buying a bigger car, you still los heaps of value, but get little in return.
well it depends on where you live. in my region they keep accessin the properties higher and higher. that's how they make money. they jack up t property taxes.
if you keep paying so much per year in property taxes, your investm devalues unless your gameplan is to flip it and sell it.
Houses generally don't go down in value. Cars almost always go down i valu l part of the investment too. We have to pay for all that as wel
A car is a consumable product. A house is not unless you own a trailer home.
A consumable product is one that is used up or transformed during use. Food
A car is not consumable. It is a durable good. Parts of the car are consum
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: Moondog to MRO on Fri Sep 09 2022 08:13 pm
By: Boraxman to MRO on Fri Sep 09 2022 11:57 pm
move someplace where you can accomplish this.
Why should I move? If there is a problem, it should be fixed. Running a from problems doesn't solve them.
that's probably what the ethiopians think.
Even if I move, the same issue will follow me there.
i think you are correct. you can't ditch yourself.Moving doesn't solve a problem. The problem remains if you live there or not. I live in an area where there are less than 10 houses per mile. Cab will
not run lines where there are less than 10 houses per half mile. People tell me to move, however the problem remains for those who live out there
That and I like civilisation. "Going bush" isn't an option for me. I make
Eventually the car will encounter such a major expense to maintain, and become no-longer reliable or safe to drive without considerable labor and expense. Unless I'm a collector or have the time, money, skills and parts, it's next owner is the scrap yard.
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: Moondog to MRO on Fri Sep 09 2022 08:13 pm
i think you are correct. you can't ditch yourself.
Moving doesn't solve a problem. The problem remains if you live there or not. I live in an area where there are less than 10 houses per mile. Cab will
not run lines where there are less than 10 houses per half mile. People tell me to move, however the problem remains for those who live out there
moving doesn't solve the problem if the PERSON is the problem.
otherwise, hell yeah it does.
people can move some place that is more affordable, less crime, better urban
oh they give people money to buy old houses cheap so they can
renovate. then what happens 10 years later? the property taxes
go through the roof and they probably can't live there.
oh they give people money to buy old houses cheap so they can
renovate. then what happens 10 years later? the property taxes
go through the roof and they probably can't live there.
Personally, I think property taxes as a concept is evil... I'm wholly against raising property taxes on a single owner faster than the rate of inflation. When a property changes hands, even through inheritance,
sure... but never on a single owner.
just to pay the taxes on a home they'd been in for several decades
during the current and last housing boom... And the big money vendor
capital machines buying up housing to turn into rental property at scale
are particularly vicious to society.
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: Moondog to Boraxman on Sat Sep 10 2022 11:40 am
Eventually the car will encounter such a major expense to maintain, and become no-longer reliable or safe to drive without considerable labor and expense. Unless I'm a collector or have the time, money, skills and part it's next owner is the scrap yard.
cars are getting easier. a good mechanic with a GOOD scanner can plug it in cars also last longer.
cars are getting easier. a good mechanic with a GOOD scanner can plug it in and see exactly whats wrong with it.
cars also last longer.
well it depends on where you live. in my region they keep accessing the properties higher and higher. that's how they make money. they jack up the property taxes.
if you keep paying so much per year in property taxes, your investment devalues unless your gameplan is to flip it and sell it.
Almost like you cant win either way. Value goes up, taxes go up. I try not to be negative, but man, it just seems like the system is setup where cant succeed.
One thing Ive been working on in my life, is just wanting less. For some reason I have been following a lot of people on youtube who live out of RV's, some even Vans/cars. For one, I like seeing the inventions they come up with to be able to live like this. And also, most seem so happy to not be part of the "rat race." Most live off of like 500 bucks a month. And say they live very comfortable.
That and I like civilisation. "Going bush" isn't an option for me. I make good money working in the city, money I would never make if I ran away from the problems of the city.
you live on what was essentially a prison island, so when you made a broad statement about things having to change, it's not really applicable to the rest of us.
If i move out of the city, i'm not moving into the bush. where you live there's a finite amount of space for everything, and that space is very small.
In the country i live in (the usa), we are #1 in habitable land.
People can work in 'the city' and live someplace else. I've probably mentioned this before but people who work in Washington, DC can live in Virginia and other areas.
We do not have your limitations. if I don't want to take the highway there is almost some other route i can take. there's a lot of jobs right now, and we have good internet service, water and other utilities.
So your issues are because your country is setup on a bad foundation with little room from growth. so they can try to terraform the center of austrilia and get fresh water in there and setup housing, but we're not there yet technology wise.
A car is not consumable. It is a durable good. Parts of the car are consum
Eventually the car will encounter such a major expense to maintain, and become no-longer reliable or safe to drive without considerable labor and expense. Unless I'm a collector or have the time, money, skills and parts, it's next owner is the scrap yard.
I think the system is set up to keep us in line, keep is chained and in debt so we don't get too much independence of power.
We will never ever get to be free. We will never get to enjoy the
massive productivity improvements for financial freedom. It is designed to keep us in a position where others can have power over us because we have to submit to earn money.
cars are getting easier. a good mechanic with a GOOD scanner can plug it in cars also last longer.
At some point they burn too much oil, and require the engine to be pulled and re-ringed, if not bored over and larger rings installed. Shocks and struts are pricey too. Transmission work is also pricey
cars are getting easier. a good mechanic with a GOOD scanner can plug it in and see exactly whats wrong with it.
cars also last longer.
As someone who has worked on cars from the early 60s to today, I don't know if I agree with that assessment :) Cars manufactured today treat obsolescence like a feature.
Tracker1 wrote to Moondog <=-
It's actually pretty much what a "Mall" was supposed to be. The concept was to include housing and offices.
Re: Re: Apollo 11
By: Moondog to MRO on Sat Sep 10 2022 11:24 pm
cars are getting easier. a good mechanic with a GOOD scanner can plug in cars also last longer.
At some point they burn too much oil, and require the engine to be pulled and re-ringed, if not bored over and larger rings installed. Shocks and struts are pricey too. Transmission work is also pricey
my one car is 16 years old and hasnt had those issues.
Tracker1 wrote to Moondog <=-
It's actually pretty much what a "Mall" was supposed to be. The concept was to include housing and offices.
Fsacebook has been pretty quiet about their "campus" approach. They've been working on a combined housing/office campus in Silicon Valley, where you'd live in on-campus housing, dine with your co-workers in local cafes, and I'm sure they offered the same suite of amenities that all the other tech companies offered.
What do you do when there's a pandemic, or when you're laid off? I couldn't imagine losing my job and having to a) live where I was just laid off, and b) be forced to look for new housing while I was unemployed.
If you were fresh out of college, it might be an easy transition, and kinda cool. The last thing tech companies need are new workers thinking it's college all over again.
... Meaningless in the absence of time. What never was is never again.
cars are getting easier. a good mechanic with a GOOD scanner can plug it in cars also last longer.
At some point they burn too much oil, and require the engine to be pulled and re-ringed, if not bored over and larger rings installed. Shocks and struts are pricey too. Transmission work is also pricey
my one car is 16 years old and hasnt had those issues.
Why should I move? If there is a problem, it should be fixed. Running away
Even if I move, the same issue will follow me there.
Any place you go will introduce it's own unique problems.
Why should I move? If there is a problem, it should be fixed. Running away
Even if I move, the same issue will follow me there.
You can't have your cake and eat it.
Here is the thing: if you live in a rural area, you have worse than average Internet coverage and less diversity of services. It is not realistic to think you can fix those in a short ammount of time. In real life, if the place you live in has issues that really do bother you, you move to a place which does not bother you.
I'd love to have better Internet, but I love the fact I can grab my dinner from a bush anytime I feel like it better. If you live in a big city you get access to lots of services but you eat crap which has been stored in refrigerators for too long and your logistics are impaired and cut to serve the smaller common denominator. It comes with the package. You can't really have the benefits without the drawbacks.
MRO wrote to esc <=-
I agree now more than ever. The whole "work from home" thing should really put a nail in the coffin of much of the need for scores of people to commute for work. Fewer people commuting is a benefit to everyone, if only we could
yeah but companies don't want people to work from home.
the middle managment needs something to do.
*Some* companies don't want their people to work from home. Other companies (like the one I work at) love that their employees work remotely and provides all the resources necessary for those remote employees. My last three employers all preferred people work remotely, I haven't worked full-time in an office since 2010.
MRO wrote to esc <=-
I agree now more than ever. The whole "work from home" thing should reall put a nail in the coffin of much of the need for scores of people to comm for work. Fewer people commuting is a benefit to everyone, if only we cou
yeah but companies don't want people to work from home.
the middle managment needs something to do.
*Some* companies don't want their people to work from home. Other companies (like the one I work at) love that their employees work remotely and provides all the resources necessary for those remote employees. My last three employers all preferred people work remotely, I haven't worked full-time in an office since 2010.
-+- Brightening your day. -Bex <3
... "Hello, rock-stupid cop!" -- Crow T. Robot
Nightfox wrote to bex <=-
and provides all the resources necessary for those remote employees. My last three employers all preferred people work remotely, I haven't worked full-time in an office since 2010.
I think I might start to feel stir-crazy if I worked from home too
long, but there are times when I'd like to work from home rather than
go into the office.
.. When you see part of the moon in darkness, it's the
Earth's shadow on the moon.
Wrong.
The shadow is due to the sun, not the earth. The only time the
earth's shadow hits the moon is during a lunar eclipse.
Are you sure? I think it is the reflection of the sun and the shadow of the earth that you see. The earth is just blocking.. When you see part of the moon in darkness, it's theThe shadow is due to the sun, not the earth. The only time the
Earth's shadow on the moon.
earth's shadow hits the moon is during a lunar eclipse.
the rays.
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