I work in the autonomous vehicle (AV) industry at a company called Zoox and we've started running an employee shuttle service using our
ground-up designed autonomous vehicle on public roads between company offices in Foster City and portions of the Stanford campus in
California, and Las Vegas, Nevada. https://youtu.be/OG5BKIudFJI
I don't share much about my work-life, but this milestone deserved a celebration:
I work in the autonomous vehicle (AV) industry at a company called Zoox we've started running an employee shuttle service using our ground-up designed autonomous vehicle on public roads between company offices in F City and portions of the Stanford campus in California, and Las Vegas, Nevada.
landscapes, I just wonder about general safety in regards to
accidents and crashes.
I don't share much about my work-life, but this milestone deserved a celebration:
I work in the autonomous vehicle (AV) industry at a company called Zoox we've started running an employee shuttle service using our ground-up designed autonomous vehicle on public roads between company offices in F City and portions of the Stanford campus in California, and Las Vegas, Nevada.
That's legal now? You can legally drive them things on the road? Glad I don't live out west!
Car looks small which makes it I believe usable for dense city landscapes, I just wonder about general safety in regards to accidents and crashes.
I'm sure this one is not about speeding on the road, but others do speed, one may crash into this little beetle.. Are you also covering physical design to ensure safety or still just focused on AV aspects alone?
That's legal now? You can legally drive them things on the road? Glad I don't live out west!
That's legal now? You can legally drive them things on the road? Glad I don't live out west!
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
By: HusTler to anthk on Tue Jul 04 2023 04:31 am
That's legal now? You can legally drive them things on the road? Glad I don't live out west!
Several car companies have been developing self-driving car technology for years.. If there was a legal issue with having them on the road, I imagine development of such vehicles would have stopped years ago.
On 04 Jul 2023, Moondog said the following...
The advantage of self drivng vehicles in war time is considerable. Ambulances and ammo carriers, and trucks in convoys would see the benefit of taking a person out of danger.
wouldn't be surprised if we see UAV/drone catapult devices for that sort of thing in the future. like an eject button for the field
That's legal now? You can legally drive them things on the road? Glad I don't live out west!
Several car companies have been developing self-driving car technology for years.. If there was a legal issue with having them on the road, I imagine development of such vehicles would have stopped years ago.
A special permit is required (at least in California) and includes restrictions on the "operating domain" (times, places, conditions).
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first rides
By: anthk to Digital Man on Tue Jul 04 2023 03:25:56
I work in the autonomous vehicle (AV) industry at a company called
Zoox and we've started running an employee shuttle service using our
...
If it's electric, it's one of the best alternatives to
the cancer generating machines from the 20th century.
Worth noting that a *LOT* of electricity is generated from fossil fuels, and
I'm all for electric, and other fuel options, for transportation, but electr her will wind.
--
Michael J. Ryan
+o roughneckbbs.com
tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
The electrcity has to come from somewhere, and power plants are way more efficient than internal combustion engines. The exhaust fumes from a power plant are less polluting than every vehicles on the road.
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
By: Moondog to Tracker1 on Mon Jul 10 2023 08:23 am
The electrcity has to come from somewhere, and power plants are way mor efficient than internal combustion engines. The exhaust fumes from a p plant are less polluting than every vehicles on the road.
yeah but why arent we working on filtering out these pollutants?
shouldnt we have something by now that catches it all?
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
By: Moondog to Tracker1 on Mon Jul 10 2023 08:23 am
In coal power production, carbon capture methods also consume power. AtThe electrcity has to come from somewhere, and power plants are way more efficient than internal combustion engines. The exhaust fumes from a pow plant are less polluting than every vehicles on the road.
yeah but why arent we working on filtering out these pollutants?
shouldnt we have something by now that catches it all?
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first rides
By: MRO to Tracker1 on Sun Jul 09 2023 04:34 pm
We will never run out of oil and we could always develop more environmentally friendly ways of obtaining it and using it.
How is it that we'll never run out of oil? I'd always thought it was a fini d saw that there are estimates that our supply of fossil fuels may run out i
Nightfox
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first rides
By: Tracker1 to anthk on Sun Jul 09 2023 01:04 pm
Worth noting that a *LOT* of electricity is generated from fossil fuels and the efficiency of gas powered cars is more than conversion to electricity.
I'm all for electric, and other fuel options, for transportation, but electric isn't a panacea. Also short of more nuclear plants, the effort to go "all electric" largely won't work and will over-burden other syte Solar won't cut it alone, and neither will wind.
That's true now, but I'm sure the technology will continue to improve. I im
Nightfox
yeah but why arent we working on filtering out these pollutants?In coal power production, carbon capture methods also consume power. At some point the cost of carbon capture could cost more than the power created.
shouldnt we have something by now that catches it all?
In an internal combustion engine on an automobile, a zero emission exhaust system would also be prohibitively expensive. Filters would have to be durabl e and easy to replace (and replace often.) People already find methods to defeat or bypass emissions reduction.
Going electric is more about reducing pollution by sequestering it to the power plants.
In coal power production, carbon capture methods also consume power. At some point the cost of carbon capture could cost more than the power created.
In an internal combustion engine on an automobile, a zero emission exhaust system would also be prohibitively expensive. Filters would have to be durabl e and easy to replace (and replace often.) People already find methods to defeat or bypass emissions reduction.
Going electric is more about reducing pollution by sequestering it to the power plants.
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
By: Moondog to MRO on Mon Jul 10 2023 03:45 pm
In coal power production, carbon capture methods also consume power. At some point the cost of carbon capture could cost more than the power created.
In an internal combustion engine on an automobile, a zero emission exha system would also be prohibitively expensive. Filters would have to be durabl e and easy to replace (and replace often.) People already find methods to defeat or bypass emissions reduction.
Going electric is more about reducing pollution by sequestering it to t power plants.
I've been hearing about hydrogen fuel cell engines for years, and that they y to produce hydrogen cells than we get from them.
Nightfox
The electrcity has to come from somewhere, and power plants are way more efficient than internal combustion engines. The exhaust fumes from a power plant are less polluting than every vehicles on the road.
Since solar and wind power rely on daylight and windy days,they require a storage bank such as batteries or capacitors. Fossil fuels had the advantage to produce consistent levels of power 24/7. You could build a fossil plant nearly anywhere. Wind, solar and hydro plants are geographically selective.
whatever, we can can come up with the technology to do it cheaper if we wanted to. we just don't.
I've been hearing about hydrogen fuel cell engines for years, and that they would not produce any harmful emissions, as the only exhaust they'd have would be steam/water. But I recall one of the issues I've heard of with this is that it takes more energy to produce hydrogen cells than we get from them.
Not sure how much it costs to extract hydrogen from water using electricity, however I imagine your driving range is restricted to the size of the pressurized fuel tank. Compressed natural gas conversions get over 40+ mpg, h owever a fiber wrapped pressure tank will take up the entire trunk space. The range is only 200 miles for a tank that size.
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
By: MRO to Moondog on Mon Jul 10 2023 21:46:37
whatever, we can can come up with the technology to do it cheaper if we wanted to. we just don't.
How much have you invested in either time or money towards that effort?
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
By: Nightfox to Moondog on Tue Jul 11 2023 10:27:37
I've been hearing about hydrogen fuel cell engines for years, and that they would not produce any harmful emissions, as the only exhaust they' have would be steam/water. But I recall one of the issues I've heard of with this is that it takes more energy to produce hydrogen cells than w get from them.
There's a lot of issues with hydrogen fuel. The biggest is using other ener alinated water at the production locations.
We'd need to run more water from areas with clean water access and enough re
you have the issue of transporting hydrogen for localized consumption.
They aren't insurmountable, and as I mentioned, I believe it's a better opti
and crude-based gasoline isn't the only fossil fuel option, just currently
--
Michael J. Ryan
+o roughneckbbs.com
tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
By: Moondog to Nightfox on Tue Jul 11 2023 23:42:00
Not sure how much it costs to extract hydrogen from water using electricity, however I imagine your driving range is restricted to the size of the pressurized fuel tank. Compressed natural gas conversions g over 40+ mpg, h owever a fiber wrapped pressure tank will take up the entire trunk space. The range is only 200 miles for a tank that size.
Probably why I've only ever seen CNG for large busses, trucks and SUVs...
--
Michael J. Ryan
+o roughneckbbs.com
tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
By: Tracker1 to MRO on Wed Jul 12 2023 02:56 pm
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
By: MRO to Moondog on Mon Jul 10 2023 21:46:37
whatever, we can can come up with the technology to do it cheaper if wanted to. we just don't.
How much have you invested in either time or money towards that effort?
i havent invested shit other than my tax dollars that are invested towards i
i think it's all bullshit.
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first rides
By: Tracker1 to Nightfox on Wed Jul 12 2023 02:44 pm
That's true now, but I'm sure the technology will continue to
improve. I imagine we may eventually find a way to make it more
plants generate by orders of magnitude. Safety is a major concern there but at least in the US, we have a *LOT* of inland locations that are ve geo stable that can be used for it. The legacy fossil fuel industry
I live on Long Island. The Long Island Lighting Company known as LILCO now veryone off the Island should a disaster occur. I'm all for nuclear power pl
The electrcity has to come from somewhere, and power plants are way more efficient than internal combustion engines. The exhaust fumes from a power plant are less polluting than every vehicles on the road.
If they kept running they could've produced 15 million gallons of renewable > esel oil yearly.
I've been hearing about hydrogen fuel cell engines for years, and that they > to produce hydrogen cells than we get from them.
Hydrogen cells are a way to store energy, not to produce it.
It would help if people realized they are just a different sort of battery.
tan k. Even though cng is abundant, fill stations are not abundant nor convenient. If you were planning a road trip, you would have to plan for fill stations that will be open during your transit hours.
i think it's all bullshit.
Zero or reduced emission equipment adds additional cost, and customers aren't willing to pay for it if they don't have to.
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
By: Moondog to Nightfox on Mon Jul 10 2023 04:17 pm
If they kept running they could've produced 15 million gallons of renewab
Yeah, and truckloads of methoxide would have been needed and then sent to wa people in movies when a dumb secondary characters dares touch it.
--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
If we really wanted to reduce fossil fuel use, we'd eliminate air freightlto
ther. Oh noes, no more 1-2 day order deliveries. People also don't thinkuch
r enough about the environmental impact of what goes into making and evenryi
to recycle batteries.
Working at Cook was the safest place I ever worked. Since nuclear power generation is scrutinized regarding safety, this has forced them to be as transparent and forthcoming to report injuries. If a person got a paper cut, paperwork had to be filled out.
i think it's all bullshit.
Zero or reduced emission equipment adds additional cost, and customers aren't willing to pay for it if they don't have to.
i dont give a shit about reducing emmissions.
I'm with ya on that. I'll never own or drive an electric car. Especially
a self driving one. I'd be afraid the battery would catch fire while charging in my garage.
I'm with ya on that. I'll never own or drive an electric car. Especially a self driving one. I'd be afraid the battery would catch fire while charging in my garage.
A gas-powered car also has a standard 12-volt car battery that is constantly being charged by the car's alternator. Have you ever had a problem with a 12-volt car battery catching on fire?
Do you not have anything else that uses a rechargeable battery? What about a cell phone? Laptop? Digital camera? And so on.. It's the same basic technology. How often do any of those batteries catch on fire while charging
A gas-powered car also has a standard 12-volt car battery that is constantly
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
By: HusTler to MRO on Fri Jul 14 2023 11:20 am
I'm with ya on that. I'll never own or drive an electric car. Especiall > Hu> a self driving one. I'd be afraid the battery would catch fire while
charging in my garage.
Do you not have anything else that uses a rechargeable battery? What about > hanisms to prevent the battery from overcharging, and I think they tend ot b >
A gas-powered car also has a standard 12-volt car battery that is constantly >
Nightfox
---
þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
No, I don't think it's likely but it would still make me nervous. The past > And I also hear a lot about slow charge and fast charge. Many years ago I h >
Nightfox wrote to HusTler <=-
I'm with ya on that. I'll never own or drive an electric car. Especially
a self driving one. I'd be afraid the battery would catch fire while charging in my garage.
Do you not have anything else that uses a rechargeable battery?
What about a cell phone? Laptop? Digital camera? And so on..
It's the same basic technology. How often do any of those
batteries catch on fire while charging? Generally they put in
mechanisms to prevent the battery from overcharging, and I think
they tend ot be fairly safe.
A gas-powered car also has a standard 12-volt car battery that is constantly being charged by the car's alternator. Have you ever
had a problem with a 12-volt car battery catching on fire?
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
By: Nightfox to HusTler on Fri Jul 14 2023 09:59 am
A gas-powered car also has a standard 12-volt car battery that is constantly
The EVs also have the 12-volt car battery, in addition to the motor's batteries.
If we really wanted to reduce fossil fuel use, we'd eliminate air freightlto
ther. Oh noes, no more 1-2 day order deliveries. People also don't thinkuch
r enough about the environmental impact of what goes into making and evenryi
to recycle batteries.
I would go as far as to say eliminate air travel in general, especially private jets.
* SLMR 2.1a * ...gnorw og... gnorw og... gnorw og nac gnihton
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
By: Moondog to Hustler on Thu Jul 13 2023 01:40 pm
Working at Cook was the safest place I ever worked. Since nuclear power generation is scrutinized regarding safety, this has forced them to be as transparent and forthcoming to report injuries. If a person got a paper c paperwork had to be filled out.
I too believe nuclear reactors are safe. But we still need to have a worki plan should something happen. I'm not familiar with your state but getting people off Long Island would be a nightmare. There are no bridges. Only 2 ferries. There was talk about building a bridge from Long Island to Connecti but that would cost a fortune because the Long Island sound is very deep. Ev then the traffic jam it would cause with only having one bridge was just unacceptable. I think the bigger problem is how much our economy relies on fossil fuels. I just don't see fossil fuels going away anytime soon. Not in lifetime anyway.
|07 HusTler
... Government corruption seems always to be reported in the past tense.
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
By: MRO to Moondog on Thu Jul 13 2023 05:02 pm
i think it's all bullshit.
Zero or reduced emission equipment adds additional cost, and customers aren't willing to pay for it if they don't have to.
i dont give a shit about reducing emmissions.
I'm with ya on that. I'll never own or drive an electric car. Especial a self driving one. I'd be afraid the battery would catch fire while chargin in my garage.
|07 HusTler
... An idea is not responsible for the people who believe in it.
I bet there was uncertainty about operating horseless carrages and again whe > automatic transmissions arrived on the scene.
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
By: Nightfox to HusTler on Fri Jul 14 2023 09:59 am
Do you not have anything else that uses a rechargeable battery? What abou cell phone? Laptop? Digital camera? And so on.. It's the same basic technology. How often do any of those batteries catch on fire while charg
No, I don't think it's likely but it would still make me nervous. The past . And I also hear a lot about slow charge and fast charge. Many years ago I
|12HusTlerRegarding e-bikes catching fire, I wonder how much of that was from user error vs manufacturing flaws? I recall awhile back there were a bunch of small fron e that had specific battety charging instructions. The battery had to be cooled down to room temperature before charging, oiotherwise if you charged
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
By: Nightfox to HusTler on Fri Jul 14 2023 09:59 am
A gas-powered car also has a standard 12-volt car battery that is constan
The EVs also have the 12-volt car battery, in addition to the motor's batter
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first rides
By: Phigan to Arelor on Fri Jul 14 2023 08:55 am
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first rides
By: Arelor to Tracker1 on Thu Jul 13 2023 11:42 am
If a guy like me who generates twice as much electricity as a house ne
Dude I dunno what kind of numbers you're running.. My EV's capacity is 62stay within the lower priced power time, otherwise it would t > less than o
time with a proper 15A charger). With this capacity giving me 230 mile dr
---62kwh is nearly a week worth of supply for a home here. I mention it just in order for people to have some perspective.
þ Synchronet þ TIRED of waiting 2 hours for a taco? GO TO TACOPRONTO.bbs
My house uses up to 12 kwh per day (because we use a whole lot of electric power for water supplies since we operate our own preasure groups). We typically have an excess of 15 kwh per day with our solar arrays.
It would take more than 4 days to charge an EV battery like yours using exce power. During the most favorable time of the year. Asuming power lines capab of transmiting infinite power (ie. battery charges as fast as the solar arra allows).
Unfortunately, things don't work that way because if your domestic wiring is parepared to withstand 21 amps tops (keep in mind Spanish lines work at 230 and you regularly have loads of 13 at home, that leaves you with 8 useful am for charging your EV. So chances are it is gonna take more unless you do som reworking on your power supplies.
I do two job trips per week (and that is my only vehicle use for the most pa is doable some times of the year, but not most of the year.
So:
Buying an EV here means you pay a HUGE upfrong cost for a vehicle whose sell does not trust - see what I mention about them trying you to give up your warranty rights. Then you need some heavy rewiring at home. And even then, n matter you have a power plant capable of sustaining two homes in your horseyard, you will end up buying power from the grid half of the year becau the car just eats so much electricity - 62 kwh are like 11 bucks here.
But scrap that.
Rough estimate is I need 30 bucks in fossile fuels for my job trips. With an 000 total savings if you consider a car will last 10 years. The problem is E in the market segment of my combustion car are too far from the price mark s saving 13k or 14 k or 20k won't make it. And that is waaaay before we consid maintenance and insurance costs.
* Asuming I am a regular person with no self-sufficient power production.
If I had an infinite electric power supply I would save more than 15k in the car's lifetime and still fail to recoup my investment.
--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
By: Nightfox to HusTler on Fri Jul 14 2023 09:59 am
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
By: HusTler to MRO on Fri Jul 14 2023 11:20 am
I'm with ya on that. I'll never own or drive an electric car. Especi charging in my garage.
Do you not have anything else that uses a rechargeable battery? What abo A gas-powered car also has a standard 12-volt car battery that is constan Nightfox
---
þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
A lead/acid battery in a regular car is not really the same tech used for something like an electric car or a pack of solar batteries.
The magnitudes involved are not even comparable. A cell phone does not have kwh of electric storage and a 200 amps nominal discharge capacity. A solar backup set of batteries might. An EV is well above those. Comparing an EV to cell phone is like comparing a miniature toy car with a plane carrier.
Electrical failures is one of the top reasons for home fires. THere is a rea protection, overcurrent protection and earth fault protection: sometimes thi
I think battery technology is pretty safe nowadays but only with proper care
--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
That tends to make sense. The headlisghts, turn signals ands radios run off of the 12 volt system much like regular cars, while the driveline systems
I'd imagine a charging system would either have to have it's own battery bank or capacxitor system in order to push enough current into a car's
had to be cooled down to room temperature before charging, oiotherwise if you charged
it immediately after use, it would burn up? The Radio Shack near me sells e-bikes and scooters, and some of the Chinese builds appear to be decent quality, however the cheaper ones have sketchy batteries and charging electronics.
Tracker1 wrote to Moondog <=-
LOL. Electricity from fossil fuels, to batteries to drive cars is way
less efficient than just running the cars directly from fossil fuels.
Regarding e-bikes catching fire, I wonder how much of that was from user err > vs manufacturing flaws? I recall awhile back there were a bunch of small fr > e that had specific battety charging instructions. The battery had to be
cooled down to room temperature before charging, oiotherwise if you charged it immediately after use, it would burn up? The Radio Shack near me sells e-bikes and scooters, and some of the Chinese builds appear to be decent quality, however the cheaper ones have sketchy batteries and charging electronics.
I'd imagine a charging system would either have to have it's own battery ban > or capacxitor system in order to push enough current into a car's battery
bank?
An ideal charging system would have to be idiot proof, meaning they cannot b > over ridden and prevent the car from being charged improperly. Charging
protection has gone a long way even in 20 years.
Hydrogen and natural gas require pressurized tanks. Unlike gas or diesel ...
conversion during a road trip. Range was limited to 200 miles per tank load, and most of the fi ll stations had limited operating hours. The stations that serviced city bus lines required gate access or an account with the cng provider.
i dont give a shit about reducing emmissions.
If we really wanted to reduce fossil fuel use, we'd eliminate air
freight ...
I would go as far as to say eliminate air travel in general, especially private jets.
I too believe nuclear reactors are safe. But we still need to have a working plan should something happen. I'm not familiar with your state but getting people off Long Island would be a nightmare. There are no bridges. Only 2 ferries. There was talk about building a bridge from Long Island to Connecticut but that would cost a fortune because the Long Island sound is very deep. Even then the traffic jam it would cause with only having one bridge was just unacceptable. I think the bigger problem is how much our economy relies on fossil fuels. I just don't see fossil fuels going away anytime soon. Not in my lifetime anyway.
I'm with ya on that. I'll never own or drive an electric car.
Especially a self driving one. I'd be afraid the battery would catch
fire while charging in my garage.
Do you not have anything else that uses a rechargeable battery? What about a cell phone? Laptop? Digital camera? And so on.. It's the same basic technology. How often do any of those batteries catch on fire while charging? Generally they put in mechanisms to prevent the battery from overcharging, and I think they tend ot be fairly safe.
A gas-powered car also has a standard 12-volt car battery that is constantly being charged by the car's alternator. Have you ever had a problem with a 12-volt car battery catching on fire?
yeah those ev battery fires were pretty scarey. and they'd have to dump tons and tons of water on them to suffocate them. i think tesla has detonators that are supposed to stop the fire by causing disconnections within the battery.
Tracker1 wrote to Moondog <=-
LOL. Electricity from fossil fuels, to batteries to drive cars is way less efficient than just running the cars directly from fossil fuels.
I was thinking how much I liked those mixed-hybrid cars like the BMW i3
and the older Chevy - they used an electric engine exclusively but had a small gas engine used to charge the battery. Made sense to be able to
extend the range with gas but rely on electric.
... Emphasize differencesBack in the 1990's a co-founder of Compaq and his brother, a former NASA engin eer, were experimenting with electric cars. Instead of making EV's that run o nly on battery, a small gas turbine powered a generator, like a locomotive. T he turbine would run at a consistent RPM, so fuel consumption would be consistent.
Subject: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first rides
@MSGID: <64B2BCEA.53895.dove.dove-gen@realitycheckbbs.org>
@REPLY: <64AEBC5A.26980.dove-general@roughneckbbs.com>
@TZ: c1e0
Tracker1 wrote to Nightfox <=-
We already have the technology... nuclear power. It's not dependent on the weather, or having visibility to the sun, so it can operate 24/7 without issue, and produces a small fraction of the waste that fossil fuel power plants generate by orders of magnitude. Safety is a major concern there, but at least in the US, we have a *LOT* of inland locations that are very geo stable that can be used for it. The legacy fossil fuel industry doesn't want nuclear though. And "green" sources won't provide enough around the clock coverage.
Battery backed green sources are going to play more of a role. I work
for a company that provides battery-backed solar storage with an
intelligent system that sits behind the meter that takes historical
usage, weather forecasts and tariff information to determine whether to
run on the solar power, charge your batteries or sell the power back to
the grid. I'm pretty sure TeslaWalls do the same thing, but these
systems are enterprise-sized. In some cases, they're used by
municipalities in front of the meter.
The reliance on water cooling for nuclear seems to drive putting them
near oceans - otherwise, why put them in a place where they're
susceptible to earthquake-driven tsunamis and storm surges?
... Emphasize differences
Usually you can't put them out, and you just have to wait it out for a
few days.
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
By: MRO to Moondog on Thu Jul 13 2023 17:02:33
i dont give a shit about reducing emmissions.
Funny, I actually do care... not because I believe the world is going to end
The shear size of a battery pack in a phone is massively different than what's in a passenger vehicle... I've had a phone battery explode and catch fire, it's kinda scarey, not enough to panic over, but chilling. A passenger vehicle battery pack is 2000x as large iirc. Though they tend to mostly only catch fire in accidents, but are generally left burning and it takes days for them to burn out. Now imagine that in a garage, and with a house that maybe has bedrooms above or adjacent to the garage, and your kids
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
By: MRO to HusTler on Fri Jul 14 2023 12:09:04
yeah those ev battery fires were pretty scarey. and they'd have to dump tons and tons of water on them to suffocate them. i think tesla has detonators that are supposed to stop the fire by causing disconnections within the battery.
Usually you can't put them out, and you just have to wait it out for a few days.
basic technology. How often do any of those batteries catch on fire while charg
Regarding e-bikes catching fire, I wonder how much of that was from user err vs manufacturing flaws? I recall awhile back there were a bunch of small fro
ackageI would go as far as to say eliminate air travel in general, especially private jets.
Air freight is much, much bigger than consumer travel, even including private ts. A lot of space even on passenger airlines is used for more urgent
Not that I'm an advocate for heavy usage of private jets.
I was thinking how much I liked those mixed-hybrid cars like the BMW i3
and the older Chevy - they used an electric engine exclusively but had a small gas engine used to charge the battery. Made sense to be able to
extend the range with gas but rely on electric.
A gas-powered car also has a standard 12-volt car battery that is constantly being charged by the car's alternator. Have you ever had a problem with a 12-volt car battery catching on fire?
Tracker1 wrote to Dumas Walker <=-
Air freight is much, much bigger than consumer travel, even including private jets. A lot of space even on passenger airlines is used for
more urgent packages. Not that I'm an advocate for heavy usage of
private jets.
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
By: MRO to Moondog on Thu Jul 13 2023 17:02:33
i dont give a shit about reducing emmissions.
Funny, I actually do care... not because I believe the world is going to end
I don't like the haze I see across a city, or even the Grand Canyon.
My bigger issues are the urgency and alarmism. We, as a society can be prag to drink as-is. Things need to change... but doing so in ways that are appr
Politics is stupid, and using religion disguised as science doesn't help eit
--
Michael J. Ryan
+o roughneckbbs.com
tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
I don't see how things will work in future if the future for the EV is
not some sort of hybrid. Some areas of our country are pretty spread
out, so trying to get from place to place without some way to make your own electric would not be practical.
Dumas Walker wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-
I don't see how things will work in future if the future for the EV is
not some sort of hybrid. Some areas of our country are pretty spread
out, so trying to get from place to place without some way to make your own electric would not be practical.
I don't see how things will work in future if the future for the EV
is not some sort of hybrid. Some areas of our country are pretty
spread out, so trying to get from place to place without some way to
make your own electric would not be practical.
they will probably preemtively ban running gas generators installed inside of electric cars. i bet there are already comapanies investigating a clean "factory look" install of generators inside the trunks of them. they'll probably ban them the instant one company has a decent product.
I think the issue isn't range, as electric range has grown significantly over the years. Charging time is the issue, and that's primarily an
issue of physics.
the instant one company has a decent product. they like to take things thath
ld be inherently legal and regulate them.
I think it's interesting when global heads of state and leaders of
industry get together to talk about combatting climate change - then
someone adds up all of the carbon deficit caused by the private jets
flying in/out of the conference.
Dumas Walker wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-
I don't see how things will work in future if the future for the EV is not some sort of hybrid. Some areas of our country are pretty spread out, so trying to get from place to place without some way to make your own electric would not be practical.
I think the issue isn't range, as electric range has grown significantly over the years. Charging time is the issue, and that's primarily an
issue of physics.
Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I think availability of charging stations is an issue too. It seems
they aren't really ubiquitous. I've only seen them available at some store parking lots here and there, and even then, there may be only 5
of them or something.
Dumas Walker wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-
That, of course, ruins the idea of going somewhere that a lot of folks cannot afford, hanging out with important people, and just generally showing off.
I don't see how things will work in future if the future for the EV is not some sort of hybrid. Some areas of our country are pretty spread out, so trying to get from place to place without some way to make your own electric would not be practical.
I think the issue isn't range, as electric range has grown significantly
over the years. Charging time is the issue, and that's primarily an
issue of physics.
That, of course, ruins the idea of going somewhere that a lot of folks cannot afford, hanging out with important people, and just generally showing off.
I suppose heads of state don't do it for the swag like I used to.
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first rides
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Tue Jul 18 2023 07:24 am
I'd heard Mazdas are good cars. I had been thinking about buying a
newer car for a little while and recently bought a Mazda 3 myeslf.
They're fun to drive - mechanics assumption is that they won't last as long as a Toyota or Honda, but are good for 100K or so.
That being said, I have a 2011 CX-9 with 140K and it's doing fine - bought it at 105K and replaced fluids and brakes. No repairs yet. It's huge, but fast and fun to drive.
100k actually sounds to me like a short lifespan for a car.. I often hear o
Nightfox
we'll likely spend 200 years making our lives an inconvenient hell only
to discover some sort of 95% efficient power source .. and nothing
between now and then would have made any improvement to climate change, pollution, etc. compared to what that would do instantly.
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first rides
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Hustler on Wed Jul 19 2023 08:14 am
One thing all Mazdas seem to have in common - they're all FUN TO DRIVE. I test-drove a Mazda 3, loved it. My AWD CX-9, while it's a troop hauler, is fast and feels like a much lighter car.
I feel like my Mazda3 is fairly responsive with its power and turning and ov suspension from the factory - I've noticed I feel more of the road with this fun to drive.
I've often thought a Mazda Miata would be fun to drive. Their current Miata
Nightfox
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Nightfox <=-
Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
100k actually sounds to me like a short lifespan for a car.. I often
hear of cars (especially the reliable brands) going farther than that,
and I thought I'd heard Mazda was up there as one of the more reliable brands.
Scotty Kilmer (a YouTube Channel guy, others here have seen him) made
the comment when he drove a Mazda cx-5 that it was fun to drive and
nicely built, but if you want a car guaranteed to go over 100K miles,
get a Toyota or Honda. Take him with a grain of salt.
I'd heard other people say the same - whether it's true or not who
knows. As long as you change your fluids according to schedule, I think most modern cars will last over 100K.
100 years ago it was about 2B people on this planet. now we are close to 10Bven
growing. That's a lot more CO2 producers just by simple breathing... not
peaking about car ownership desire.
kind of sad really.. all the A1/Mk1 stuff used off the shelf bulbs foreveryt
ng*. they were available at nearly every gas station in the country.ometimes
ven the headlights (looking online the same entire bulb/lens assembly matches
makes and hundreds of models)
i'd say we went backwards as far as sustainability goes in that regard..
I've never seen any gas stations that change taillight/headlight bulbs or anyt
ng like that..?
I've never seen any gas stations that change taillight/headlight bulbs or anyt
ng like that..?
Back when they were called "service stations" they used to.
Ideally, changing light bulbs in a headlight or taillight should be a fairly simple thing. Unfortunately it seems like some are a little complicated to get to (especially taillights).
HusTler wrote to Nightfox <=-
So what does the lady down the street do with no husband or BF? Bring
the car to their dealer? Everyone has new cars so I'm guessing that's where they bring their cars.
Ideally, changing light bulbs in a headlight or taillight should be a fairly simple thing. Unfortunately it seems like some are a little complicated to get to (especially taillights).
So what does the lady down the street do with no husband or BF? Bring the car to their dealer? Everyone has new cars so I'm guessing that's where they bring their cars.
Back when they were called "service stations" they used to.
back in the old days you could stick your hand up underneath and swap out a bul
in some cases. now you have to take apart shit.
Back when they were called "service stations" they used to.
back in the old days you could stick your hand up underneath and swapbul
out a
in some cases. now you have to take apart shit.
Yep. They want you to have to pay a dealership to be able to do any maintenance to your vehicle. That, and I sometimes think that maintenance is an afterthought.
* SLMR 2.1a * Eschew Obfuscation!
---
þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
Back when they were called "service stations" they used to.
back in the old days you could stick your hand up underneath and swap out a bul
in some cases. now you have to take apart shit.
Yep. They want you to have to pay a dealership to be able to do any maintenance to your vehicle. That, and I sometimes think that maintenance is an afterthought.
what happened to giving the bulb a twist and pulling it out and replacing it. ---
Sounds like what apple does, and it's somewhat irritating.
candycane
Interesting.. I didn't realize that. I'd heard the Miata may not have had a whole lot of power, but it was meant to be fun to drive.
It didn't. It was designed to emulate old roadsters, which were light,
handled well, and you drove them pedal-to-the-metal and flung them
around corners.
GenFx wrote to candycane <=-
Just last week I had to scrap my car due to a computer problem.
The main PCB had no markings of course no schematics are
available. I couldn't even buy a replacement computer from the
dealer, They didn't even want to sell one to me. Even if they
would sell one they didn't know which of the 3 similar boards to
get and would likely be wrong. The dealer didn't even have the
tools needed to program it anyway. I always perfer to fix my own
things so the car was well maintained mechanically. Saying
goodbye to the car was a hard pill to swallow.
Just last week I had to scrap my car due to a computer problem.
The main PCB had no markings of course no schematics are available.
I couldn't even buy a replacement computer from the dealer, They didn't even want to sell one to me. Even if they would sell one they didn't know which o the 3 similar boards to get and would likely be wrong.
even with my 2006 exploder i need to use an extention and socket to take out 3 bolts. then i have to yank the whole assy out. i'm hoping my newer car doesnt blow a headlight because i don't want to go down that road.
i helped my friend change the bulbs on his chevy sedan and that was seriously a pain in the ass.
what happened to giving the bulb a twist and pulling it out and replacing it.
what happened to giving the bulb a twist and pulling it out and replacing
it.
Companies wanting you to come in and spend money?
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
By: MRO to Dumas Walker on Thu Aug 03 2023 11:27 pm
what happened to giving the bulb a twist and pulling it out and replacing it. ---
Companies wanting you to come in and spend money?
candycane
===
user is generated from /dev/urandom
...When GOD made women, he was only testing.
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
Just last week I had to scrap my car due to a computer problem.
The main PCB had no markings of course no schematics are available.
I couldn't even buy a replacement computer from the dealer, They didn't even want to sell one to me. Even if they would sell one they didn't know which of the 3 similar boards to get and would likely be wrong.
The dealer didn't even have the tools needed to program it anyway.
I always perfer to fix my own things so the car was well maintained mechanically.
Saying goodbye to the car was a hard pill to swallow.
Geez..where do you guys live? In the sticks? Why so difficult to find a good mechanic that you can trust?
It would be nice if companies made things easy to work on and fix. I'd be inclined to be more of a repeat customer if they did that, rather than them them trying to force me to come in and spend money because they made something more difficult.
engineers are really idiots and don't think about what will happen down the line. i've seen car batteries where you had to jack up the car and take off tire to get to the battery. i've seen batteries in a compartment in the trun and they have wires running under the hood with posts for jumping.
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
By: candycane to MRO on Fri Aug 04 2023 02:03 am
what happened to giving the bulb a twist and pulling it out and
replacing it.
Companies wanting you to come in and spend money?
It would be nice if companies made things easy to work on and fix. I'd be inclined to be more of a repeat customer if they did that, rather than them them trying to force me to come in and spend money because they made something more difficult.
Nightfox
---
þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
engineers are really idiots and don't think about what will happen down the line. i've seen car batteries where you had to jack up the car and take off tire to get to the battery. i've seen batteries in a compartment in the trun and they have wires running under the hood with posts for jumping.
Oh man! I remember that! What kind of car was that? I was running a
flatbed
on the weekends and a service call for that thing (AAA). The guy needed a jump. I was like WTF?? I told the guy best I can do is tow you back to the shop. Can't remember what kind of vehicle it was.
car and take off tire to get to the battery. i've seen batteries in a
Oh man! I remember that! What kind of car was that? I was running a
one was a chevy cobalt (which was an embarassment that they yanked. they did
How old was the car? Must have been fairly old, because the dealership certainly has the parts and tools needed to program the computer of any recent model.
Geez..where do you guys live? In the sticks? Why so difficult to find a good mechanic that you can trust?
Thanks for that. I thought is was a BMW or Volvo but I'm not sure. Some have terminal posts in the trunk that you can use to jump start it. I never understood what these engineers were trying to accomplish.
engineers are really idiots and don't think about what will happen down the line. i've seen car batteries where you had to jack up the car and take off the tire to get to the battery. i've seen batteries in a compartment in the trunk and they have wires running under the hood with posts for jumping.
I've seen some cars like that, with the battery hidden in a trunk compartment. I've heard it's "to make more room in the engine compartment", but I'm not sure if it's always engineers being idiots - I imagine the company might also want things to be difficult to work on so that more customers might decide to take their car to the dealership to be worked on.
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
By: Nightfox to MRO on Sat Aug 05 2023 12:37 pm
I've seen some cars like that, with the battery hidden in a trunk
compartment. I've heard it's "to make more room in the engine
compartment", but I'm not sure if it's always engineers being idiots -
I imagine the company might also want things to be difficult to work
on so that more customers might decide to take their car to the
dealership to be worked on.
they're idiots. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4piizWfcFYU&ab_channel=OzMechanics
---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
Hustler wrote to MRO <=-
car and take off tire to get to the battery. i've seen batteries in a
Oh man! I remember that! What kind of car was that? I was running a
one was a chevy cobalt (which was an embarassment that they yanked. they did
Thanks for that. I thought is was a BMW or Volvo but I'm not
sure. Some have terminal posts in the trunk that you can use to
jump start it. I never understood what these engineers were
trying to accomplish.
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
By: Nightfox to MRO on Sat Aug 05 2023 12:37 pm
I've seen some cars like that, with the battery hidden in a trunk compartment. I've heard it's "to make more room in the engine compartment", but I'm not sure if it's always
engineers
being idiots - I imagine the company might also want things to be difficult to work on so that more customers might decide to take their car to the dealership to be worked on.
they're idiots. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4piizWfcFYU&ab_channel=OzMechanics
Hustler wrote to GenFx <=-
Geez..where do you guys live? In the sticks? Why so difficult to find a good mechanic that you can trust?
My 2014 Camaro has the battery in the trunk. You have to take out the spare tire to get to it.. Pain in the a$$ if you have a lot of stuff in the trunk like I do..
I've seen some cars like that, with the battery hidden in a trunk compartment. I've heard it's "to make more room in the engine compartment", but I'm not sure if it's always engineers being idiots - I imagine the company might also want things to be difficult to work on so that more customers might decide to take their car to the dealership to be worked on.
MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
By: Nightfox to candycane on Fri Aug 04 2023 09:23 am
engineers are really idiots and don't think about what will happen down the line. i've seen car batteries where you had to jack up the car and take off the tire to get to the battery. i've seen batteries in a compartment in the trunk and they have wires running under the hood
with posts for jumping.
Nightfox wrote to Dredster <=-
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
By: Dredster to MRO on Sun Aug 06 2023 12:07 am
My 2014 Camaro has the battery in the trunk. You have to take out the spare tire to get to it.. Pain in the a$$ if you have a lot of stuff in the trunk like I do..
Meh, Chevy.. They seem to be fairly good cars, but I know someone who
had a Chevy and it was difficult to even replace the front headlight
bulbs - you couldn't just twist them out.
I've seen some cars like that, with the battery hidden in a trunk
compartment. I've heard it's "to make more room in the engine
I had a 78 Vette at one point, it was in the back somewhere because of that.
My Camaro is that way. Pull the carpet, pull the cover, pull the tools and then the spare tire to even get to the cover on the battery. It's a pain but there definately is no room under the hood....
My 2010 Camaro headlights have the High-Intensity Discharge system and you have to use special, and expensive, bulbs. It is recommended that all power be drained off the system and disconnect the batery before changing bulbs. I guess it can pack quite a jolt if not. Just had to do it a few months ago.
I had a 78 Vette at one point, it was in the back somewhere because of that.
I spent a lot of time working on my friend's '77 Vette. Was the 78 the first year of the bubble-back Vettes?
Putting the battery in the back helps with weight distribution on front-engine cars. Don't know how much it would help with vettes, as they're monsters.
My Vette story - my friend used to always want to race people off of stop lights, and he'd always get beat. He'd try replacing the spark plug wires, get a high-flow air filter, you name it. He went to get the spark plugs replaced (again) at a new shop and they called him over. When they pulled the plugs, they found 6 of the NGKs he'd bought, and 2 of the OEM AC Delco plugs that the previous shop never replaced because they were in the back and too hard to get to!
My 2010 Camaro headlights have the High-Intensity Discharge system and you have to use special, and expensive, bulbs. It is recommended that all power be drained off the system and disconnect the batery before changing bulbs. I guess it can pack quite a jolt if not. Just had to do it a few months ago.
Hustler wrote to GenFx <=-
That's strange. How old is the car? Did you try the many online Auto parts stores. I've even seen used part sold online. Oh well.. I guess
it don't matter if the car went to the auto graveyard. Sorry for your loss.
MRO wrote to Thumper <=-
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
By: Thumper to Nightfox on Mon Aug 07 2023 09:35 am
My 2010 Camaro headlights have the High-Intensity Discharge system and you have to use special, and expensive, bulbs. It is recommended that all power be drained off the system and disconnect the batery before changing bulbs. I guess it can pack quite a jolt if not. Just had to do it a few months ago.
i'm surprised they use those xeon bulbs instead of led. internet sez
they started using led headlights in 2004. i switched my suv's dim headlights to led and i love 'em. ---
When I looked for replacement bulbs, there appear to have been different types used for that model. Halogen, 2 styles and then the HID. I wanted to change to LED but I guess not with the HID setup. I did change tail lights to LED though.
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
By: Thumper to MRO on Wed Aug 09 2023 09:20 am
When I looked for replacement bulbs, there appear to have been different types used for that model. Halogen, 2 styles and then the HID. I wanted to change to LED but I guess not with the HID setup. I did change tail lights to LED though.
you just use a conversion kit.
they have hid to led kits.
i'm supposed to use a canbus for my led lights, but the harness they gave me created a fuck ton of heat and killed my battery. i just go without it and my console warns me about the headlights because they don't draw enough power.
That's strange. How old is the car? Did you try the many online Auto parts stores. I've even seen used part sold online. Oh well.. I guess it don't matter if the car went to the auto graveyard. Sorry for your loss.
Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
By: Thumper to MRO on Mon Aug 07 2023 09:27 am
My Camaro is that way. Pull the carpet, pull the cover, pull the tools and then the spare tire to even get to the cover on the battery. It's a pain but there definately is no
room
under the hood....
My dad's Subaru had the battery AND the spare tire under the hood!
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