Is this bad news for my hdd?

https://susepaste.org/90068115

That is the result on my T60 currently operating XP, and I luv
it.

I have been contemplating upgrading to SSD and at least 500GB
to 1TB.



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Re: bad news for hdd?
By: Ogg to All on Fri Dec 30 2022 10:43 pm

Is this bad news for my hdd?

https://susepaste.org/90068115

Unless you are doing something really critical with that drive, I would keep running it until you got an actual error :-)

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Re: bad news for hdd?
By: Arelor to Ogg on Sat Dec 31 2022 06:51 am

Re: bad news for hdd?
By: Ogg to All on Fri Dec 30 2022 10:43 pm

Is this bad news for my hdd?

https://susepaste.org/90068115

Unless you are doing something really critical with that drive, I would keep running it until you got an actual error :-)

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well i think current pending sector count means it's becoming unstable.
i have some drives that are comparable to his age and they're doing
quite fine. i have white lable drives which I believe are hitachi. if i have problems there's a pretty good warranty on them and i send them back.

his drive is very small and it SHOULD last forever, thought. but that sector warning is no bueno. if i were him i'd get some cheap larger alternative.
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Re: bad news for hdd?
By: MRO to Arelor on Sat Dec 31 2022 08:48 am

Re: bad news for hdd?
By: Arelor to Ogg on Sat Dec 31 2022 06:51 am

Re: bad news for hdd?
By: Ogg to All on Fri Dec 30 2022 10:43 pm

Is this bad news for my hdd?

https://susepaste.org/90068115

Unless you are doing something really critical with that drive, I would k running it until you got an actual error :-)

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well i think current pending sector count means it's becoming unstable.
i have some drives that are comparable to his age and they're doing
quite fine. i have white lable drives which I believe are hitachi. if i hav

his drive is very small and it SHOULD last forever, thought. but that sector ---
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I have had larger drives work for about a year with errors like that. It is a definitive sign the drive is having its sunset, but it does necessarily mean it is going to crash tomorrow.

I personally prefer to squeeze some extra time from a drive that is gonna die than switch it earler, probbaly because I have multiple backups and I can deal with a drive crashing :-)

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Re: bad news for hdd?
By: Arelor to MRO on Sat Dec 31 2022 05:26 pm

I have had larger drives work for about a year with errors like that. It is a definitive sign the drive is having its sunset, but it does necessarily mean it is going to crash tomorrow.

I personally prefer to squeeze some extra time from a drive that is gonna die than switch it earler, probbaly because I have multiple backups and I can deal with a drive crashing :-)

yeah but that is a baby one. and he could get a 4tb pretty cheap now.
why put off to tomorrow what you can do today.
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Unless you are doing something really critical with that drive, I would keep running it until you got an actual error :-)

But "Current Pending Sector Count" seems to be critical:

"Current Pending Sector Count is a critical S.M.A.R.T. (Self-
Monitoring Analysis and Reporting Technology) indication. The
respective parameter shows the number of unstable sectors on
the disk drive that are yet to be remapped or reallocated. In
simple words, this parameter indicates the number of bad
sectors on your storage drive. If you see this parameter the
first thing you should be doing is backup your important data
or recover your valuable data.

"Warning: Once you see this parameter popping up in any
benchmark software, keep your storage drive activity to a
minimum. Additionally, if this parameter is with respect to
primary storage drive (the storage with the operating system
installed) immediately backup your entire drive using backup
utility or change the primary storage drive for good.

Not sure why the 200 in max and 200 in current are the same.
Coincidence? I never really paid attention to SMART reports
and I didn't have the program that reports that early in my
ownership of the laptop.

Anyway.. this the unstable sectors are the culprits that
contribute to XP failing to do a graceful Shutdown or Restart -
it just stalls.


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Re: bad news for hdd?
By: Ogg to Arelor on Sat Dec 31 2022 10:04 pm

Not sure why the 200 in max and 200 in current are the same.
Coincidence? I never really paid attention to SMART reports
and I didn't have the program that reports that early in my
ownership of the laptop.

Anyway.. this the unstable sectors are the culprits that
contribute to XP failing to do a graceful Shutdown or Restart -
it just stalls.

if this is an older laptop then certainly, replace it with an SSD.
it will be a lot faster.

just be careful. i accidentially damaged a ribon for my touch pad and i just use a mini mouse for it now. I was being heavy handed with my laptop because i never use it anyways.
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Hello MRO!

** On Saturday 31.12.22 - 22:12, MRO wrote to Arelor:

I personally prefer to squeeze some extra time from a drive that is gonna
die than switch it earler, probbaly because I have multiple backups and I
can deal with a drive crashing :-)

yeah but that is a baby one. and he could get a 4tb pretty cheap now.
why put off to tomorrow what you can do today.

I think 4TB would be overkill. Even 2TB would be an extreme in
my case. But a jump from 240GB to 1TB would be quite
sufficient for my T60, and that would cost between $60-$100.

I replaced the CPU fan on the T60 about year ago, and that has
brought back new life to the machine (literally, 'cuz it
wouldn't boot unless the fan was operational!). I did procure a
pre-owned Win7/64 T540p (equipped with a 1TB SSD) as a planned
replacement for the T60, but I really like the T60 keyboard -
except that a new issue that has developed is that the "a" key
is seems to not respond sometimes! :(


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Hello MRO!

** On Saturday 31.12.22 - 08:48, MRO wrote to Arelor:

well i think current pending sector count means it's becoming unstable.

I concur. The "200" number looks ominous.

his drive is very small and it SHOULD last forever, thought. but that sector warning is no bueno. if i were him i'd get some cheap larger alternative. -+-

I have contemplated trying a 500GB HDD, but I am enamoured by
the idea of having a much quiter machine (less fan activity,
although the T60 fan is a new replacement and runs quite quiet
already) ..but I also like the idea that an SSD would extend
the already limited batt power which is 3hrs, if I keep the
display brightness way down or turn it off after 3 minutes of
non-use.


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MRO wrote to Ogg <=-

Re: bad news for hdd?
By: Ogg to Arelor on Sat Dec 31 2022 10:04 pm

Not sure why the 200 in max and 200 in current are the same.
Coincidence? I never really paid attention to SMART reports
and I didn't have the program that reports that early in my
ownership of the laptop.

Anyway.. this the unstable sectors are the culprits that
contribute to XP failing to do a graceful Shutdown or Restart -
it just stalls.

if this is an older laptop then certainly, replace it with an
SSD. it will be a lot faster.

Doesn't matter if it's an older laptop, or a newer laptop. Replacing a
HDD with a SSD will make it faster in either case.

just be careful. i accidentially damaged a ribon for my touch pad
and i just use a mini mouse for it now. I was being heavy handed
with my laptop because i never use it anyways.

Well if you never use it, why did you replace the drive? You obviously
*DO* use it, or you wouldn't need to use a mini mouse with it.

Why would you ever be "heavy handed" while working on a laptop, anyway?

Most of what you write makes very little sense, as you can (probably
not) see...



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Re: bad news for hdd?
By: Ogg to Arelor on Sat Dec 31 2022 10:04 pm

But "Current Pending Sector Count" seems to be critical:

The fact the drive has ran out of remappable sectors is bad but not apocaliptic.

You could run for a good while with that error in the logs and it would take a good while for an unrecoverable read error to hit an actual file in the drive. Make no mistake: an unrecoverable read error WILL hit some file of yours if you use a drive with pending sectors for any respectable length of time. The real question is how much the files in that drive matter to you. If they matter, switch the drive now. If not, take not much of a hurry.


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Re: bad news for hdd?
By: Ogg to MRO on Sun Jan 01 2023 09:53 am

well i think current pending sector count means it's becoming unstable.

I concur. The "200" number looks ominous.

That "200" is for internal use. It does not mean you have 200 damaged sectors.

SMART values usually act like a countdown. They start at a healthy hight number and go lower as errors are logged.


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Re: bad news for hdd?
By: Ogg to MRO on Sun Jan 01 2023 06:20 am

yeah but that is a baby one. and he could get a 4tb pretty cheap now. why put off to tomorrow what you can do today.

I think 4TB would be overkill. Even 2TB would be an extreme in
my case. But a jump from 240GB to 1TB would be quite
sufficient for my T60, and that would cost between $60-$100.

yeah i said that before i knew it was a laptop.
you could always get a drobo clone like i have, though.
i have 2 of these.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003X26VV4/

a 500mb or 1tb would be fine.
if you go with sata you will see a lot of improvements. less waiting for
menus to load and other annoying things with windows.
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Re: bad news for hdd?
By: Ogg to MRO on Sun Jan 01 2023 09:53 am

I have contemplated trying a 500GB HDD, but I am enamoured by
the idea of having a much quiter machine (less fan activity,
although the T60 fan is a new replacement and runs quite quiet
already) ..but I also like the idea that an SSD would extend
the already limited batt power which is 3hrs, if I keep the
display brightness way down or turn it off after 3 minutes of
non-use.

here's a comparison video someone made for the t60 with ssd

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uzZXXnuve8
---
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Re: bad news for hdd?
By: Arelor to Ogg on Sun Jan 01 2023 04:23 pm

drive. Make no mistake: an unrecoverable read error WILL hit some file of yours if you use a drive with pending sectors for any respectable length of time. The real question is how much the files in that drive matter to you. If they matter, switch the drive now. If not, take not much of a hurry.

I was an electronics tech for 17 years straight and before then, on and off. Mainly I handled prototypes, RMAS and fixing bad shit from our suppliers.

I wasn't a tech for desktop computer or laptops, but what i know is computer hardware is weak. you should not allow failing component in your setup. I had a failing display. it caught fire(luckily when i was at home).
I had a harddrive that was actually smoking. a chip on the board failed and lit up and the smoke was shooting out my back fans.

If your harddrive screws up, who knows what can happen in such a tight environment like a laptop. maybe it could physically fail and then damage a component next to it. If he can afford to, he should fix it.
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Hello MRO!

you could always get a drobo clone like i have, though.
i have 2 of these.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003X26VV4/

Does it run quiet? How much total storage have you installed?

A NAS system would be very nice. I've looked into that as well,
but could not pin down a product that I would be happy with.

Meanwhile, I plan to order an external 4TB sata hdd system and
use that to support occassional image backups of my PCs.

a 500mb or 1tb would be fine.
if you go with sata you will see a lot of improvements. less waiting for menus to load and other annoying things with windows.

Yes.. the T60 has SATA, albiet just the 1st gen. But that
should be still be good enuff for the T60.

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Hello MRO!

** On Sunday 01.01.23 - 19:37, MRO wrote to Ogg:

here's a comparison video someone made for the t60 with ssd

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uzZXXnuve8

That was a good vote of confidence. Thx. I wasn't doubtful
about the speed and heat improvements. I just wasn't sure about
how XP and lack of TRIM would work with that OS. But I learned
that since XP has far less (or no) background activity going
one, TRIM is not critical. What's critical is to simply avoid
defrag, and just adjust the active partions to be a bit less
than the spec size of the drive.

I ordered a Crucial MX500 1TB drive. It should arrive on
Friday.



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Re: bad news for hdd?
By: Ogg to MRO on Mon Jan 02 2023 06:01 pm

Hello MRO!

you could always get a drobo clone like i have, though.
i have 2 of these.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003X26VV4/

Does it run quiet? How much total storage have you installed?

yeah it has a fan but it's quiet.
i have 4tb drives in both of them.
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Is this bad news for my hdd?

Hi there OGG, I would definately pick up a replacement drive and if you
can, clone it before it's done. Just to be on the safe side...

I have been contemplating upgrading to SSD and at least 500GB
to 1TB.

I don't think XP will benefit much from a SSD, XP doesn't really take
advantage of the faster drive technology (IMO). I tried puttinig one
into my XP system, but swapped it out for a 7200rpm drive instead.

Cougar
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Re: bad news for hdd?
By: Cougar428 to OGG on Tue Jan 03 2023 08:49 am

I don't think XP will benefit much from a SSD, XP doesn't really take advantage of the faster drive technology (IMO). I tried puttinig one
into my XP system, but swapped it out for a 7200rpm drive instead.

the ssd is just plain faster. there's no TRIM support, so it might slightly impact it.

he could just run win7
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Hello MRO!

** On Tuesday 03.01.23 - 11:45, MRO wrote to Cougar428:

I don't think XP will benefit much from a SSD, XP doesn't really take
advantage of the faster drive technology (IMO). I tried puttinig one
into my XP system, but swapped it out for a 7200rpm drive instead.

the ssd is just plain faster. there's no TRIM support, so it might slightly impact it.

Several comparison videos show significant difference in boot
time for instance. That's a plus. And the quieter operation
another. And.. overall, there ought to be noticeable speed
difference running programs.

he could just run win7

And that's the plan if the HDD to SDD upgrade works. My
current programs would be happy with Win7/32, no problem.



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Hello Cougar428!

** On Tuesday 03.01.23 - 08:49, Cougar428 wrote to OGG:

I don't think XP will benefit much from a SSD, XP doesn't really take advantage of the faster drive technology (IMO). I tried puttinig one
into my XP system, but swapped it out for a 7200rpm drive instead.

I've seen several comparison videos of even older Thinkpads
equipped with SSDs, and the performance/response times are
significantly faster. I was intrigued with T40's being fitted
with SDDs successfully. The T40 is only PATA as well! But
with either the right SATA/PATA adapter or just an SSD model
with PATA, provided a nice upgrade just the same.






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I don't think XP will benefit much from a SSD, XP doesn't really take advantage of the faster drive technology (IMO). I tried puttinig one
into my XP system, but swapped it out for a 7200rpm drive instead.

the ssd is just plain faster. there's no TRIM support, so it might slightly MR>act it.

he could just run win7

You are correct, it's just that when I tried this with XP I only noted a slightly faster boot time. That was just my experience.

Also about the Windows 7 comment, when I put the same SSD in a Win7
machine, it was 'noticeably' (significantly) faster.

Cougar
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I don't think XP will benefit much from a SSD, XP doesn't really take advantage of the faster drive technology (IMO). I tried puttinig one into my XP system, but swapped it out for a 7200rpm drive instead.

I've seen several comparison videos of even older Thinkpads
equipped with SSDs, and the performance/response times are
significantly faster.

You could be correct on that with your hardware. When I tried this it
was on a Dell desktop that had a 7200rpm HDD and I noted a faster boot
up time, but no other significant speed up. This was my experience, and
at the time buying an SSD was pretty pricey. Just seemed like it would
be put to better use on a Windows 7 machine.

Not saying you should not do this, just noting my experience when I did
it.

Sounds like a nice machine though!

Cougar
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Re: bad news for hdd?
By: Cougar428 to MRO on Wed Jan 04 2023 09:03 am

he could just run win7

You are correct, it's just that when I tried this with XP I only noted a slightly faster boot time. That was just my experience.

Also about the Windows 7 comment, when I put the same SSD in a Win7
machine, it was 'noticeably' (significantly) faster.

Cougar

yeah but ssd is just loads faster and better. it's an improvement
no matter what.

i've been there.
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Re: bad news for hdd?
By: Cougar428 to OGG on Wed Jan 04 2023 09:08 am

You could be correct on that with your hardware. When I tried this it
was on a Dell desktop that had a 7200rpm HDD and I noted a faster boot
up time, but no other significant speed up. This was my experience, and
at the time buying an SSD was pretty pricey. Just seemed like it would
be put to better use on a Windows 7 machine.

well dells are engineered to be what they were engineered to be.
so you might have some performance bottleneck and not get the boost you would expect with adding more memory or a faster harddrive.

i've been there too!

i used dells for my bbses and for my media servers.
there's one on my tv now.
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Ogg wrote to Cougar428 <=-

I've seen several comparison videos of even older Thinkpads
equipped with SSDs, and the performance/response times are
significantly faster. I was intrigued with T40's being fitted
with SDDs successfully. The T40 is only PATA as well! But
with either the right SATA/PATA adapter or just an SSD model
with PATA, provided a nice upgrade just the same.

There are PATA SSDs available, I had a 128GB PATA SSD in my T42 and used
it way beyond its normal useful life. The speed increase made it usable
for most everything except full-screen video, which was a little choppy.



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Cougar428 wrote to OGG <=-

You could be correct on that with your hardware. When I tried this it
was on a Dell desktop that had a 7200rpm HDD and I noted a faster boot
up time, but no other significant speed up. This was my experience, and
at the time buying an SSD was pretty pricey. Just seemed like it would
be put to better use on a Windows 7 machine.

Another option is a hybrid SATA drive - they're relatively fast SATA
drives with 4-8GB of cache stuck to the side. Boot up time is
SATA-speed, but once it boots up it starts filling the cache and app
times decrease significantly once they're read from the cache. I used
them a lot when upgrading systems and SSDs were expensive.



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with SDDs successfully. The T40 is only PATA as well! But
with either the right SATA/PATA adapter or just an SSD model
with PATA, provided a nice upgrade just the same.

There are PATA SSDs available, I had a 128GB PATA SSD in my T42 and used it way beyond its normal useful life. The speed increase made it usable for most everything except full-screen video, which was a little choppy.

Full-screen video choppy with SSD on PATA, not surprising
actually. That wouldn't have even occurred to me. I don't
really need video performance on the T40p anyway.

Although I'd love to revitalize my T40p with an SSD, it too
needs a new fan, although I can bypass the no-boot lockup by
pre-spinning the fan before I press turn on the pc, for now.
The T40p has some tools and programs I'd love to revisit. I
wouldn't mind having it hooked up to the local network and even
control it by vnc for convenience.

I was forced to change the CPU fan in my T60 a couple years
ago. The pc refused to boot otherwise. It was a frustrating
experience - and I was left with ONE SCREW that didn't seem to
fit properly anywhere! - and I thought I was very careful
where each screw came from.

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