• Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first

    From hollowone@VERT/BEERS20 to Digital Man on Tuesday, July 04, 2023 01:53:00
    I work in the autonomous vehicle (AV) industry at a company called Zoox and we've started running an employee shuttle service using our
    ground-up designed autonomous vehicle on public roads between company offices in Foster City and portions of the Stanford campus in
    California, and Las Vegas, Nevada. https://youtu.be/OG5BKIudFJI

    This is cool DM, really. It only reminds me that the CYBERPUNK is already here, when we talk about blending tech into real-life.

    From the autonomous driving point of view, I love, from the inside it looks like a trip in a premium taxi from Cyberpunk game already, just less space and no drinks during the trip.

    Car looks small which makes it I believe usable for dense city landscapes, I just wonder about general safety in regards to accidents and crashes.

    I'm sure this one is not about speeding on the road, but others do speed, one may crash into this little beetle.. Are you also covering physical design to ensure safety or still just focused on AV aspects alone?

    -h1

    ... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.
  • From HusTler@VERT/BEERS20 to anthk on Tuesday, July 04, 2023 04:31:00
    I don't share much about my work-life, but this milestone deserved a celebration:

    I work in the autonomous vehicle (AV) industry at a company called Zoox we've started running an employee shuttle service using our ground-up designed autonomous vehicle on public roads between company offices in F City and portions of the Stanford campus in California, and Las Vegas, Nevada.

    That's legal now? You can legally drive them things on the road? Glad I don't live out west!
  • From Phigan@VERT/TACOPRON to hollowone on Tuesday, July 04, 2023 05:48:41
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: hollowone to Digital Man on Tue Jul 04 2023 01:53 am

    landscapes, I just wonder about general safety in regards to
    accidents and crashes.

    Not sure if you know this, but those tiny little Smart brand
    cars made by Mercedes are basically roll cages on wheels. Not
    sure how the Zoox ones are, but it's very possible to make a
    tiny car safe :).

    ---
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to HusTler on Tuesday, July 04, 2023 08:03:00
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: HusTler to anthk on Tue Jul 04 2023 04:31 am

    I don't share much about my work-life, but this milestone deserved a celebration:

    I work in the autonomous vehicle (AV) industry at a company called Zoox we've started running an employee shuttle service using our ground-up designed autonomous vehicle on public roads between company offices in F City and portions of the Stanford campus in California, and Las Vegas, Nevada.

    That's legal now? You can legally drive them things on the road? Glad I don't live out west!

    you are replying to the wrong person again.
    ---
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  • From Digital Man@VERT to hollowone on Tuesday, July 04, 2023 13:47:30
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: hollowone to Digital Man on Tue Jul 04 2023 01:53 am

    Car looks small which makes it I believe usable for dense city landscapes, I just wonder about general safety in regards to accidents and crashes.

    I'm sure this one is not about speeding on the road, but others do speed, one may crash into this little beetle.. Are you also covering physical design to ensure safety or still just focused on AV aspects alone?

    It's the first passenger vehicle built where all occupents have 5-star rated crash protection.
    https://zoox.com/safety/
    --
    digital man (rob)

    Rush quote #8:
    One likes to believe in the freedom of music...
    Norco, CA WX: 84.7øF, 39.0% humidity, 9 mph SSE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs ---
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  • From Digital Man@VERT to HusTler on Tuesday, July 04, 2023 13:48:27
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: HusTler to anthk on Tue Jul 04 2023 04:31 am

    That's legal now? You can legally drive them things on the road? Glad I don't live out west!

    Within specific operating domains and conditions, yes.
    --
    digital man (rob)

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #41:
    Ian Faith: It says "Memphis show cancelled due to lack of advertising funds." Norco, CA WX: 84.7øF, 39.0% humidity, 9 mph SSE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to HusTler on Wednesday, July 05, 2023 09:49:46
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: HusTler to anthk on Tue Jul 04 2023 04:31 am

    That's legal now? You can legally drive them things on the road? Glad I don't live out west!

    Several car companies have been developing self-driving car technology for years.. If there was a legal issue with having them on the road, I imagine development of such vehicles would have stopped years ago.

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From Digital Man@VERT to Nightfox on Wednesday, July 05, 2023 11:12:40
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Nightfox to HusTler on Wed Jul 05 2023 09:49 am

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: HusTler to anthk on Tue Jul 04 2023 04:31 am

    That's legal now? You can legally drive them things on the road? Glad I don't live out west!

    Several car companies have been developing self-driving car technology for years.. If there was a legal issue with having them on the road, I imagine development of such vehicles would have stopped years ago.

    A special permit is required (at least in California) and includes restrictions on the "operating domain" (times, places, conditions).
    --
    digital man (rob)

    Breaking Bad quote #20:
    So who's your chief, little injun? - Hank Schrader
    Norco, CA WX: 75.1øF, 57.0% humidity, 1 mph ESE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs ---
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to fusion on Wednesday, July 05, 2023 09:58:00
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: fusion to Moondog on Tue Jul 04 2023 09:09 pm

    On 04 Jul 2023, Moondog said the following...

    The advantage of self drivng vehicles in war time is considerable. Ambulances and ammo carriers, and trucks in convoys would see the benefit of taking a person out of danger.

    wouldn't be surprised if we see UAV/drone catapult devices for that sort of thing in the future. like an eject button for the field


    I was let down when I heard further testing of the Big Dog was dropped. A robot pack mule sounded like a cool idea, however it required more power than batteries alone could provide, and the diesel generator created to much
    noise. I'm sure they could've found a way to ditch the game controller to steer it with, and use AI to recognize soldiers and hand signals.

    ---
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  • From Hustler@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Friday, July 07, 2023 04:21:47
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Nightfox to HusTler on Wed Jul 05 2023 09:49 am

    That's legal now? You can legally drive them things on the road? Glad I don't live out west!

    Several car companies have been developing self-driving car technology for years.. If there was a legal issue with having them on the road, I imagine development of such vehicles would have stopped years ago.

    Maybe but I'll bet each State will have it's own regulations and votes on them. I know a lot of older people against them things. We'll see what happens. People in New York drive like animals. The last thing we need is a robot car in the mix.


    |12HusTler
    ---
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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Digital Man on Sunday, July 09, 2023 13:12:58
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Wed Jul 05 2023 11:12:40

    A special permit is required (at least in California) and includes restrictions on the "operating domain" (times, places, conditions).

    I think it's the same here, iirc I've only seen them in Chandler, AZ and I believe Tempe as well, but not the larger Phoenix area.

    From what I recall, there is testing for larger (freight truck) AVs in southern parts of Nevada (Vegas area) as well. I do feel AVs would be great for the Vegas area in general, similar to San Francisco. Both being areas that are just unpleasant to drive in, generally speaking.


    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    +o roughneckbbs.com
    tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

    ---
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Tracker1 on Monday, July 10, 2023 08:23:00
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Tracker1 to anthk on Sun Jul 09 2023 01:04 pm

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first rides
    By: anthk to Digital Man on Tue Jul 04 2023 03:25:56

    I work in the autonomous vehicle (AV) industry at a company called
    Zoox and we've started running an employee shuttle service using our
    ...

    If it's electric, it's one of the best alternatives to
    the cancer generating machines from the 20th century.

    Worth noting that a *LOT* of electricity is generated from fossil fuels, and

    I'm all for electric, and other fuel options, for transportation, but electr her will wind.


    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    +o roughneckbbs.com
    tracker1@roughneckbbs.com


    The electrcity has to come from somewhere, and power plants are way more efficient than internal combustion engines. The exhaust fumes from a power plant are less polluting than every vehicles on the road.

    ---
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Moondog on Monday, July 10, 2023 08:10:27
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Moondog to Tracker1 on Mon Jul 10 2023 08:23 am


    The electrcity has to come from somewhere, and power plants are way more efficient than internal combustion engines. The exhaust fumes from a power plant are less polluting than every vehicles on the road.

    yeah but why arent we working on filtering out these pollutants?
    shouldnt we have something by now that catches it all?
    ---
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  • From fusion@VERT/CFBBS to MRO on Monday, July 10, 2023 18:55:00
    On 10 Jul 2023, MRO said the following...

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Moondog to Tracker1 on Mon Jul 10 2023 08:23 am


    The electrcity has to come from somewhere, and power plants are way mor efficient than internal combustion engines. The exhaust fumes from a p plant are less polluting than every vehicles on the road.

    yeah but why arent we working on filtering out these pollutants?
    shouldnt we have something by now that catches it all?

    indeed. every time i spend some time researching this stuff i kind of
    conclude that we /still/ don't know shit about anything.. improving coal power plants isn't a priority anymore. they've decided nuclear is a no-no..

    we'll likely spend 200 years making our lives an inconvenient hell only to discover some sort of 95% efficient power source .. and nothing between now and then would have made any improvement to climate change, pollution, etc. compared to what that would do instantly.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to MRO on Monday, July 10, 2023 15:45:00
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: MRO to Moondog on Mon Jul 10 2023 08:10 am

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Moondog to Tracker1 on Mon Jul 10 2023 08:23 am


    The electrcity has to come from somewhere, and power plants are way more efficient than internal combustion engines. The exhaust fumes from a pow plant are less polluting than every vehicles on the road.

    yeah but why arent we working on filtering out these pollutants?
    shouldnt we have something by now that catches it all?
    In coal power production, carbon capture methods also consume power. At
    some point the cost of carbon capture could cost more than the power created.

    In an internal combustion engine on an automobile, a zero emission exhaust system would also be prohibitively expensive. Filters would have to be durabl e and easy to replace (and replace often.) People already find methods to defeat or bypass emissions reduction.

    Going electric is more about reducing pollution by sequestering it to the
    power plants.

    ---
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Monday, July 10, 2023 16:17:00
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Mon Jul 10 2023 10:36 am

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first rides
    By: MRO to Tracker1 on Sun Jul 09 2023 04:34 pm

    We will never run out of oil and we could always develop more environmentally friendly ways of obtaining it and using it.

    How is it that we'll never run out of oil? I'd always thought it was a fini d saw that there are estimates that our supply of fossil fuels may run out i

    Nightfox


    Oil is the byproduct of heat and pressure. In nature, hydrocarbons ar e produced from bio mass over centuries. This process can be recreated through thermal depolymerization processes. Attempts to create oil from biomass have been successful, but there is cost involved not only in production, there is added expense of trucking in materials in high enough volumes to be cost effec tive. There was a company operating in Carthage, Missouri that was
    processing the waste materials from a Butterball turkey processing facility. They could render 250 tons of turkey wastes into 500 gallons of #2 heating
    oil (renewable diesel.) They could process 300 tons, and their demand
    exceeded what could be produced next door. Shipping in materials from
    outside the area forced them to shut down.

    If they kept running they could've produced 15 million gallons of renewable di esel oil yearly.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Monday, July 10, 2023 16:24:00
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Nightfox to Tracker1 on Mon Jul 10 2023 10:40 am

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first rides
    By: Tracker1 to anthk on Sun Jul 09 2023 01:04 pm

    Worth noting that a *LOT* of electricity is generated from fossil fuels and the efficiency of gas powered cars is more than conversion to electricity.

    I'm all for electric, and other fuel options, for transportation, but electric isn't a panacea. Also short of more nuclear plants, the effort to go "all electric" largely won't work and will over-burden other syte Solar won't cut it alone, and neither will wind.

    That's true now, but I'm sure the technology will continue to improve. I im

    Nightfox


    Since solar and wind power rely on daylight and windy days,they require a storage bank such as batteries or capacitors. Fossil fuels had the advantage to produce consistent levels of power 24/7. You could build a fossil plant nearly anywhere. Wind, solar and hydro plants are geographically selective.



    ---
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Moondog on Monday, July 10, 2023 21:46:37
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Moondog to MRO on Mon Jul 10 2023 03:45 pm


    yeah but why arent we working on filtering out these pollutants?
    shouldnt we have something by now that catches it all?
    In coal power production, carbon capture methods also consume power. At some point the cost of carbon capture could cost more than the power created.

    In an internal combustion engine on an automobile, a zero emission exhaust system would also be prohibitively expensive. Filters would have to be durabl e and easy to replace (and replace often.) People already find methods to defeat or bypass emissions reduction.


    whatever, we can can come up with the technology to do it cheaper if we wanted to. we just don't.


    Going electric is more about reducing pollution by sequestering it to the power plants.

    electric cars are just bullshit.
    it's not feasable and it's bad for the environment as well.
    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Moondog on Tuesday, July 11, 2023 10:27:37
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Moondog to MRO on Mon Jul 10 2023 03:45 pm

    In coal power production, carbon capture methods also consume power. At some point the cost of carbon capture could cost more than the power created.

    In an internal combustion engine on an automobile, a zero emission exhaust system would also be prohibitively expensive. Filters would have to be durabl e and easy to replace (and replace often.) People already find methods to defeat or bypass emissions reduction.

    Going electric is more about reducing pollution by sequestering it to the power plants.

    I've been hearing about hydrogen fuel cell engines for years, and that they would not produce any harmful emissions, as the only exhaust they'd have would be steam/water. But I recall one of the issues I've heard of with this is that it takes more energy to produce hydrogen cells than we get from them.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Tuesday, July 11, 2023 23:42:00
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Nightfox to Moondog on Tue Jul 11 2023 10:27 am

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Moondog to MRO on Mon Jul 10 2023 03:45 pm

    In coal power production, carbon capture methods also consume power. At some point the cost of carbon capture could cost more than the power created.

    In an internal combustion engine on an automobile, a zero emission exha system would also be prohibitively expensive. Filters would have to be durabl e and easy to replace (and replace often.) People already find methods to defeat or bypass emissions reduction.

    Going electric is more about reducing pollution by sequestering it to t power plants.

    I've been hearing about hydrogen fuel cell engines for years, and that they y to produce hydrogen cells than we get from them.

    Nightfox


    Not sure how much it costs to extract hydrogen from water using electricity, however I imagine your driving range is restricted to the size of the pressurized fuel tank. Compressed natural gas conversions get over 40+ mpg, h owever a fiber wrapped pressure tank will take up the entire trunk space.
    The range is only 200 miles for a tank that size.

    ---
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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Moondog on Wednesday, July 12, 2023 14:39:35
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Moondog to Tracker1 on Mon Jul 10 2023 08:23:00

    The electrcity has to come from somewhere, and power plants are way more efficient than internal combustion engines. The exhaust fumes from a power plant are less polluting than every vehicles on the road.

    LOL. Electricity from fossil fuels, to batteries to drive cars is way less efficient than just running the cars directly from fossil fuels.


    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    +o roughneckbbs.com
    tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Moondog on Wednesday, July 12, 2023 14:55:11
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Mon Jul 10 2023 16:24:00

    Since solar and wind power rely on daylight and windy days,they require a storage bank such as batteries or capacitors. Fossil fuels had the advantage to produce consistent levels of power 24/7. You could build a fossil plant nearly anywhere. Wind, solar and hydro plants are geographically selective.

    Exactly... I'd like to see more efforts to hydrogen storage over battery banks myself. Of course that would need coordinated water pipelines across the country, and would likely cost more than current oil pipeline and electricity grid construction. I'm also definitely in favor of expanded nuclear generation. I'm all for having more options, I just think it's naive to believe we can or even should try to eliminate all fossil fuel usage in the near term.

    If we really wanted to reduce fossil fuel use, we'd eliminate air freight altogether. Oh noes, no more 1-2 day order deliveries. People also don't think much or enough about the environmental impact of what goes into making and even trying to recycle batteries.


    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    +o roughneckbbs.com
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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to MRO on Wednesday, July 12, 2023 14:56:28
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: MRO to Moondog on Mon Jul 10 2023 21:46:37

    whatever, we can can come up with the technology to do it cheaper if we wanted to. we just don't.

    How much have you invested in either time or money towards that effort?


    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    +o roughneckbbs.com
    tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Nightfox on Wednesday, July 12, 2023 15:02:38
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Nightfox to Moondog on Tue Jul 11 2023 10:27:37

    I've been hearing about hydrogen fuel cell engines for years, and that they would not produce any harmful emissions, as the only exhaust they'd have would be steam/water. But I recall one of the issues I've heard of with this is that it takes more energy to produce hydrogen cells than we get from them.

    There's a lot of issues with hydrogen fuel. The biggest is using other energy to get hydrogen. There are lots of options in the space, green options and even then it's less harmful than using batteries. The other problem is access to clean, fresh, desalinated water at the production locations.

    We'd need to run more water from areas with clean water access and enough refresh to say the southwest for wind and solar generation to be able to convert... or have said electric production shifted towards hydrogen production closer to the source. Then you have the issue of transporting hydrogen for localized consumption.

    They aren't insurmountable, and as I mentioned, I believe it's a better option over the damage that creating/disposing/recycling batteries does to the envirnonment. Also worth mentioning that natural gas is extremely low emissionss for vehicle transport and crude-based gasoline isn't the only fossil fuel option, just currently the cheapest option.


    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    +o roughneckbbs.com
    tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Moondog on Wednesday, July 12, 2023 15:07:52
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Tue Jul 11 2023 23:42:00

    Not sure how much it costs to extract hydrogen from water using electricity, however I imagine your driving range is restricted to the size of the pressurized fuel tank. Compressed natural gas conversions get over 40+ mpg, h owever a fiber wrapped pressure tank will take up the entire trunk space. The range is only 200 miles for a tank that size.

    Probably why I've only ever seen CNG for large busses, trucks and SUVs...


    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    +o roughneckbbs.com
    tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Tracker1 on Wednesday, July 12, 2023 11:56:23
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Tracker1 to MRO on Wed Jul 12 2023 02:56 pm

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: MRO to Moondog on Mon Jul 10 2023 21:46:37

    whatever, we can can come up with the technology to do it cheaper if we wanted to. we just don't.

    How much have you invested in either time or money towards that effort?


    i havent invested shit other than my tax dollars that are invested towards it by my govt.

    i think it's all bullshit.
    ---
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Tracker1 on Thursday, July 13, 2023 12:30:00
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Tracker1 to Nightfox on Wed Jul 12 2023 03:02 pm

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Nightfox to Moondog on Tue Jul 11 2023 10:27:37

    I've been hearing about hydrogen fuel cell engines for years, and that they would not produce any harmful emissions, as the only exhaust they' have would be steam/water. But I recall one of the issues I've heard of with this is that it takes more energy to produce hydrogen cells than w get from them.

    There's a lot of issues with hydrogen fuel. The biggest is using other ener alinated water at the production locations.

    We'd need to run more water from areas with clean water access and enough re
    you have the issue of transporting hydrogen for localized consumption.

    They aren't insurmountable, and as I mentioned, I believe it's a better opti
    and crude-based gasoline isn't the only fossil fuel option, just currently


    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    +o roughneckbbs.com
    tracker1@roughneckbbs.com


    Hydrogen and natural gas require pressurized tanks. Unlike gas or diesel
    tanks that can conform to whatever shape they need to be in order to fit, pressurized tanks tend to be cylindrical and much larger. A car running on
    cnx will lose it's trunk space in order to accomodate pressurized cylinder tan k. Even though cng is abundant, fill stations are not abundant nor
    convenient. If you were planning a road trip, you would have to plan for
    fill stations that will be open during your transit hours. I read an article awhile back where the reviewer test drove a Honda Civic cng conversion during
    a road trip. Range was limited to 200 miles per tank load, and most of the fi ll stations had limited operating hours. The stations that serviced city bus lines required gate access or an account with the cng provider.

    ---
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Tracker1 on Thursday, July 13, 2023 13:01:00
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Tracker1 to Moondog on Wed Jul 12 2023 03:07 pm

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Tue Jul 11 2023 23:42:00

    Not sure how much it costs to extract hydrogen from water using electricity, however I imagine your driving range is restricted to the size of the pressurized fuel tank. Compressed natural gas conversions g over 40+ mpg, h owever a fiber wrapped pressure tank will take up the entire trunk space. The range is only 200 miles for a tank that size.

    Probably why I've only ever seen CNG for large busses, trucks and SUVs...


    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    +o roughneckbbs.com
    tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

    Another reason why city bus lines are perfect for cng operation is the drivers
    know there is a local fill station. They probably travel a set route all day , and there is a fill station within their travel area. When I was working
    at AM General the city busses would fill from our cng fill station. They
    used to produce a taxi-type vehicle was wheel chair friendly(MV-1), and a cng ready variant was made on the factory line. Most cng vehiles are re-fits or conversions.


    ---
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to MRO on Thursday, July 13, 2023 13:05:00
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: MRO to Tracker1 on Wed Jul 12 2023 11:56 am

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Tracker1 to MRO on Wed Jul 12 2023 02:56 pm

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: MRO to Moondog on Mon Jul 10 2023 21:46:37

    whatever, we can can come up with the technology to do it cheaper if wanted to. we just don't.

    How much have you invested in either time or money towards that effort?


    i havent invested shit other than my tax dollars that are invested towards i

    i think it's all bullshit.

    Zero or reduced emission equipment adds additional cost, and customers aren't willing to pay for it if they don't have to.

    ---
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Hustler on Thursday, July 13, 2023 13:40:00
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Hustler to Tracker1 on Thu Jul 13 2023 07:43 am

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first rides
    By: Tracker1 to Nightfox on Wed Jul 12 2023 02:44 pm

    That's true now, but I'm sure the technology will continue to
    improve. I imagine we may eventually find a way to make it more

    plants generate by orders of magnitude. Safety is a major concern there but at least in the US, we have a *LOT* of inland locations that are ve geo stable that can be used for it. The legacy fossil fuel industry

    I live on Long Island. The Long Island Lighting Company known as LILCO now veryone off the Island should a disaster occur. I'm all for nuclear power pl

    I worked as a contractor at Cook Nuclear Power in southwest Michigan for several years. Obama killing the Yucca Mountain project forced them to take the space set aside for building an additional reactor and turn it into
    onsite dry cask storage. Further up Lake Michiogan is Palisades Nuclear, and they shut down last summer. Holtec bought the plant from Entergy, and is attempting to get funding to re-open it.

    Working at Cook was the safest place I ever worked. Since nuclear power generation is scrutinized regarding safety, this has forced them to be as transparent and forthcoming to report injuries. If a person got a paper cut, paperwork had to be filled out.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANTIR to Moondog on Thursday, July 13, 2023 11:57:55
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Moondog to Tracker1 on Mon Jul 10 2023 08:23 am

    The electrcity has to come from somewhere, and power plants are way more efficient than internal combustion engines. The exhaust fumes from a power plant are less polluting than every vehicles on the road.


    Power grids are more efficient in some places than others.

    My power grid end point is overvolted over 10% and the next house has an undervoltage of 9%. We checked the transformer with some power company guys andit seems the problem comes from upstream.

    Apparently some wiring in town is having above a 9% voltage drop in 20 meters. This translates nearly 1:1 as a 9% power loss during transport. Now imagine theammount of miles between the transformer and the substation. There is a whole
    room for power loss if your grid sucks.

    I am aware combined cycle thermal power plants have an efficency of about 60%, but that they won t tell you is that they often turn them on half-cycle insteadof full-cycle because turning on just a segment is so much faster.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANTIR to Moondog on Thursday, July 13, 2023 12:11:39
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Mon Jul 10 2023 04:17 pm

    If they kept running they could've produced 15 million gallons of renewable > esel oil yearly.

    Yeah, and truckloads of methoxide would have been needed and then sent to wastedisposal, which is bad because methoxides are the sort of substance which kill
    people in movies when a dumb secondary characters dares touch it.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANTIR to Nightfox on Thursday, July 13, 2023 12:20:08
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Nightfox to Moondog on Tue Jul 11 2023 10:27 am

    I've been hearing about hydrogen fuel cell engines for years, and that they > to produce hydrogen cells than we get from them.

    Hydrogen cells are a way to store energy, not to produce it.

    It would help if people realized they are just a different sort of battery.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Arelor on Thursday, July 13, 2023 13:07:18
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Arelor to Nightfox on Thu Jul 13 2023 12:20 pm

    Hydrogen cells are a way to store energy, not to produce it.

    It would help if people realized they are just a different sort of battery.

    It takes energy to produce hydrogen, but similarly, I think it also takes some energy to process and refine raw oil into gasoline, diesel fuel, etc.. One issue with EV batteris is that they take hours to recharge. It would be more convenient to be able to go to a fueling station and get a full tank of fuel that has energy now, like we do with gasoline and diesel.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Moondog on Thursday, July 13, 2023 13:09:56
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Moondog to Tracker1 on Thu Jul 13 2023 12:30 pm

    tan k. Even though cng is abundant, fill stations are not abundant nor convenient. If you were planning a road trip, you would have to plan for fill stations that will be open during your transit hours.

    That's the same issue we currently have for EV battery charging stations. We just need to build more stations, which will take time (and have them open during hours when people need them).

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Moondog on Thursday, July 13, 2023 17:02:33
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Moondog to MRO on Thu Jul 13 2023 01:05 pm

    i think it's all bullshit.

    Zero or reduced emission equipment adds additional cost, and customers aren't willing to pay for it if they don't have to.

    we are paying for it one way or another. dumb shit biden signs that goes no where.

    i dont give a shit about reducing emmissions.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Arelor on Thursday, July 13, 2023 21:26:00
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Arelor to Moondog on Thu Jul 13 2023 12:11 pm

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Mon Jul 10 2023 04:17 pm

    If they kept running they could've produced 15 million gallons of renewab

    Yeah, and truckloads of methoxide would have been needed and then sent to wa people in movies when a dumb secondary characters dares touch it.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken


    Why would you need it? Don't confuse RDO with biodiesel. Methanol and lye
    are mixed with vegetable for biodiesel. You don't need it for thermal depolymerization.


    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to TRACKER1 on Thursday, July 13, 2023 15:46:00
    If we really wanted to reduce fossil fuel use, we'd eliminate air freight
    lto
    ther. Oh noes, no more 1-2 day order deliveries. People also don't think
    uch
    r enough about the environmental impact of what goes into making and even
    ryi
    to recycle batteries.

    I would go as far as to say eliminate air travel in general, especially
    private jets.


    * SLMR 2.1a * ...gnorw og... gnorw og... gnorw og nac gnihton

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From HusTler@VERT/PHARCYDE to Moondog on Friday, July 14, 2023 11:08:54
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Moondog to Hustler on Thu Jul 13 2023 01:40 pm

    Working at Cook was the safest place I ever worked. Since nuclear power generation is scrutinized regarding safety, this has forced them to be as transparent and forthcoming to report injuries. If a person got a paper cut, paperwork had to be filled out.

    I too believe nuclear reactors are safe. But we still need to have a working plan should something happen. I'm not familiar with your state but getting people off Long Island would be a nightmare. There are no bridges. Only 2 ferries. There was talk about building a bridge from Long Island to Connecticut but that would cost a fortune because the Long Island sound is very deep. Even then the traffic jam it would cause with only having one bridge was just unacceptable. I think the bigger problem is how much our economy relies on fossil fuels. I just don't see fossil fuels going away anytime soon. Not in my lifetime anyway.

    |07 HusTler



    ... Government corruption seems always to be reported in the past tense.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)
  • From HusTler@VERT/PHARCYDE to MRO on Friday, July 14, 2023 11:20:58
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: MRO to Moondog on Thu Jul 13 2023 05:02 pm

    i think it's all bullshit.

    Zero or reduced emission equipment adds additional cost, and customers aren't willing to pay for it if they don't have to.

    i dont give a shit about reducing emmissions.

    I'm with ya on that. I'll never own or drive an electric car. Especially a self driving one. I'd be afraid the battery would catch fire while charging in my garage.

    |07 HusTler



    ... An idea is not responsible for the people who believe in it.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to HusTler on Friday, July 14, 2023 09:59:10
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: HusTler to MRO on Fri Jul 14 2023 11:20 am

    I'm with ya on that. I'll never own or drive an electric car. Especially
    a self driving one. I'd be afraid the battery would catch fire while charging in my garage.

    Do you not have anything else that uses a rechargeable battery? What about a cell phone? Laptop? Digital camera? And so on.. It's the same basic technology. How often do any of those batteries catch on fire while charging? Generally they put in mechanisms to prevent the battery from overcharging, and I think they tend ot be fairly safe.

    A gas-powered car also has a standard 12-volt car battery that is constantly being charged by the car's alternator. Have you ever had a problem with a 12-volt car battery catching on fire?

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to HusTler on Friday, July 14, 2023 12:09:04
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: HusTler to MRO on Fri Jul 14 2023 11:20 am


    I'm with ya on that. I'll never own or drive an electric car. Especially a self driving one. I'd be afraid the battery would catch fire while charging in my garage.


    yeah those ev battery fires were pretty scarey. and they'd have to dump
    tons and tons of water on them to suffocate them. i think tesla has detonators that are supposed to stop the fire by causing disconnections within the battery.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Friday, July 14, 2023 12:36:34
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Nightfox to HusTler on Fri Jul 14 2023 09:59 am


    A gas-powered car also has a standard 12-volt car battery that is constantly being charged by the car's alternator. Have you ever had a problem with a 12-volt car battery catching on fire?


    hey now. totally different type of battery there.

    and there have been some high profile ev fires.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Hustler@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Friday, July 14, 2023 13:21:02
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Nightfox to HusTler on Fri Jul 14 2023 09:59 am

    Do you not have anything else that uses a rechargeable battery? What about a cell phone? Laptop? Digital camera? And so on.. It's the same basic technology. How often do any of those batteries catch on fire while charging

    No, I don't think it's likely but it would still make me nervous. The past couple of months the news reported apartment fires caused by E-bikes being charged overnight. I'm no familiar with the technolgy but if an e-bike can cause a fire, why not a car?. And I also hear a lot about slow charge and fast charge. Many years ago I had a car battery catch fire while charging on fast charge. It was a long time ago but you get my point.


    |12HusTler
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From Phigan@VERT/TACOPRON to Nightfox on Friday, July 14, 2023 17:34:44
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Nightfox to HusTler on Fri Jul 14 2023 09:59 am

    A gas-powered car also has a standard 12-volt car battery that is constantly

    The EVs also have the 12-volt car battery, in addition to the motor's batteries.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ TIRED of waiting 2 hours for a taco? GO TO TACOPRONTO.bbs.io
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANTIR to Nightfox on Friday, July 14, 2023 20:27:32
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Nightfox to HusTler on Fri Jul 14 2023 09:59 am

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: HusTler to MRO on Fri Jul 14 2023 11:20 am

    I'm with ya on that. I'll never own or drive an electric car. Especiall > Hu> a self driving one. I'd be afraid the battery would catch fire while
    charging in my garage.

    Do you not have anything else that uses a rechargeable battery? What about > hanisms to prevent the battery from overcharging, and I think they tend ot b >
    A gas-powered car also has a standard 12-volt car battery that is constantly >
    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

    A lead/acid battery in a regular car is not really the same tech used for something like an electric car or a pack of solar batteries.

    The magnitudes involved are not even comparable. A cell phone does not have 20 kwh of electric storage and a 200 amps nominal discharge capacity. A solar backup set of batteries might. An EV is well above those. Comparing an EV to a cell phone is like comparing a miniature toy car with a plane carrier.

    Electrical failures is one of the top reasons for home fires. THere is a reasonwhy one places things like car chargers and solar batteries behind overvoltage
    protection, overcurrent protection and earth fault protection: sometimes thingsfry and sometimes the thing that fries is people.

    I think battery technology is pretty safe nowadays but only with proper care. Icertainly would not put an electric car charger near a hayloft.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANTIR to Hustler on Friday, July 14, 2023 20:33:03
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Hustler to Nightfox on Fri Jul 14 2023 01:21 pm


    No, I don't think it's likely but it would still make me nervous. The past > And I also hear a lot about slow charge and fast charge. Many years ago I h >

    I doubt an e-bike charger is made to the same quality standards as a car charger or a solar battery charger.

    But then I can imagine people trying to charge an electric vehicle from a regular wall socket prepared for 3kW and causing something to fry by demanding more power than it provides XD

    Afaik most electrical fires come from things like faulty cabling, faulty extension cords, and overloading wall sockets. I don't think there is serious risk of fire using an electric car charger.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANTIR to Nightfox on Friday, July 14, 2023 20:27:00
    Nightfox wrote to HusTler <=-

    I'm with ya on that. I'll never own or drive an electric car. Especially
    a self driving one. I'd be afraid the battery would catch fire while charging in my garage.

    Do you not have anything else that uses a rechargeable battery?
    What about a cell phone? Laptop? Digital camera? And so on..
    It's the same basic technology. How often do any of those
    batteries catch on fire while charging? Generally they put in
    mechanisms to prevent the battery from overcharging, and I think
    they tend ot be fairly safe.

    Yes, those small devices are generally safe, although I have heard of
    laptops catching fire from their batteries. The difference is the size
    of the battery in an electric vehicle (and possibly the type of battery
    too, I'm not completely sure). It's a pretty big battery...

    A gas-powered car also has a standard 12-volt car battery that is constantly being charged by the car's alternator. Have you ever
    had a problem with a 12-volt car battery catching on fire?

    This is an apples-and-oranges comparison. Standard car battery is a "lead-acid" battery which is *completely* different than the lithium
    battery used in an electric vehicle.



    ... System halted - Press all keys at once to continue.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Phigan on Friday, July 14, 2023 22:56:31
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Phigan to Nightfox on Fri Jul 14 2023 05:34 pm

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Nightfox to HusTler on Fri Jul 14 2023 09:59 am

    A gas-powered car also has a standard 12-volt car battery that is constantly

    The EVs also have the 12-volt car battery, in addition to the motor's batteries.

    12v lithium? or lead acid?
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Dumas Walker on Saturday, July 15, 2023 00:12:00
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Dumas Walker to TRACKER1 on Thu Jul 13 2023 03:46 pm

    If we really wanted to reduce fossil fuel use, we'd eliminate air freight
    lto
    ther. Oh noes, no more 1-2 day order deliveries. People also don't think
    uch
    r enough about the environmental impact of what goes into making and even
    ryi
    to recycle batteries.

    I would go as far as to say eliminate air travel in general, especially private jets.


    * SLMR 2.1a * ...gnorw og... gnorw og... gnorw og nac gnihton

    I worked for a company that had a corporate travel center, and there were
    times it was cheaper and faster to take a corporate jet than fly coach to the same location. Some of the other contractors didn't like it because we were paid during travel time. A 45 minute flight sure beats 7 hours in a bus or car.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to HusTler on Saturday, July 15, 2023 00:49:00
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: HusTler to Moondog on Fri Jul 14 2023 11:08 am

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Moondog to Hustler on Thu Jul 13 2023 01:40 pm

    Working at Cook was the safest place I ever worked. Since nuclear power generation is scrutinized regarding safety, this has forced them to be as transparent and forthcoming to report injuries. If a person got a paper c paperwork had to be filled out.

    I too believe nuclear reactors are safe. But we still need to have a worki plan should something happen. I'm not familiar with your state but getting people off Long Island would be a nightmare. There are no bridges. Only 2 ferries. There was talk about building a bridge from Long Island to Connecti but that would cost a fortune because the Long Island sound is very deep. Ev then the traffic jam it would cause with only having one bridge was just unacceptable. I think the bigger problem is how much our economy relies on fossil fuels. I just don't see fossil fuels going away anytime soon. Not in lifetime anyway.

    |07 HusTler



    ... Government corruption seems always to be reported in the past tense.

    Part of maintaining an operating license is submitting an emergency plan, or e-plan. This includes a 10 mile radius around the plant. An emergency operations facility is established outside the 10 mile radius, and eof personn el coordinate with county and state people to evacuate and relocate people
    in the loss of containment path. Local schools are used for emergency shelters. The ten mile area contains alarm sirens, which could be used by
    the county or state for other emergencies. During an emergency crews are
    sent all over the emergency zone to monitor air quality and weather
    conditions.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to HusTler on Saturday, July 15, 2023 00:52:00
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: HusTler to MRO on Fri Jul 14 2023 11:20 am

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: MRO to Moondog on Thu Jul 13 2023 05:02 pm

    i think it's all bullshit.

    Zero or reduced emission equipment adds additional cost, and customers aren't willing to pay for it if they don't have to.

    i dont give a shit about reducing emmissions.

    I'm with ya on that. I'll never own or drive an electric car. Especial a self driving one. I'd be afraid the battery would catch fire while chargin in my garage.

    |07 HusTler



    ... An idea is not responsible for the people who believe in it.

    I bet there was uncertainty about operating horseless carrages and again when automatic transmissions arrived on the scene.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANTIR to Moondog on Saturday, July 15, 2023 05:14:23
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Moondog to HusTler on Sat Jul 15 2023 12:52 am

    I bet there was uncertainty about operating horseless carrages and again whe > automatic transmissions arrived on the scene.


    Then I am afraid they were right, because the cars that replaced carriages turned out to be so so so bad we are being forced to adopt a vehicle replacement plan that will most likely end in people not being able to afford any transportation XD

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Hustler on Saturday, July 15, 2023 08:12:00
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Hustler to Nightfox on Fri Jul 14 2023 01:21 pm

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Nightfox to HusTler on Fri Jul 14 2023 09:59 am

    Do you not have anything else that uses a rechargeable battery? What abou cell phone? Laptop? Digital camera? And so on.. It's the same basic technology. How often do any of those batteries catch on fire while charg

    No, I don't think it's likely but it would still make me nervous. The past . And I also hear a lot about slow charge and fast charge. Many years ago I


    |12HusTler
    Regarding e-bikes catching fire, I wonder how much of that was from user error vs manufacturing flaws? I recall awhile back there were a bunch of small fron e that had specific battety charging instructions. The battery had to be cooled down to room temperature before charging, oiotherwise if you charged
    it immediately after use, it would burn up? The Radio Shack near me sells e-bikes and scooters, and some of the Chinese builds appear to be decent quality, however the cheaper ones have sketchy batteries and charging electronics.


    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Phigan on Saturday, July 15, 2023 08:17:00
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Phigan to Nightfox on Fri Jul 14 2023 05:34 pm

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Nightfox to HusTler on Fri Jul 14 2023 09:59 am

    A gas-powered car also has a standard 12-volt car battery that is constan

    The EVs also have the 12-volt car battery, in addition to the motor's batter

    That tends to make sense. The headlisghts, turn signals ands radios run off
    of the 12 volt system much like regular cars, while the driveline systems run off of 48, 72 volt, or much higher high current systems. Safety equipment
    runs off an independent battery for redundancy.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Arelor on Saturday, July 15, 2023 08:31:00
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Arelor to Phigan on Fri Jul 14 2023 08:14 pm

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first rides
    By: Phigan to Arelor on Fri Jul 14 2023 08:55 am

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first rides
    By: Arelor to Tracker1 on Thu Jul 13 2023 11:42 am

    If a guy like me who generates twice as much electricity as a house ne

    Dude I dunno what kind of numbers you're running.. My EV's capacity is 62
    stay within the lower priced power time, otherwise it would t > less than o
    time with a proper 15A charger). With this capacity giving me 230 mile dr

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ TIRED of waiting 2 hours for a taco? GO TO TACOPRONTO.bbs
    62kwh is nearly a week worth of supply for a home here. I mention it just in order for people to have some perspective.

    My house uses up to 12 kwh per day (because we use a whole lot of electric power for water supplies since we operate our own preasure groups). We typically have an excess of 15 kwh per day with our solar arrays.

    It would take more than 4 days to charge an EV battery like yours using exce power. During the most favorable time of the year. Asuming power lines capab of transmiting infinite power (ie. battery charges as fast as the solar arra allows).

    Unfortunately, things don't work that way because if your domestic wiring is parepared to withstand 21 amps tops (keep in mind Spanish lines work at 230 and you regularly have loads of 13 at home, that leaves you with 8 useful am for charging your EV. So chances are it is gonna take more unless you do som reworking on your power supplies.

    I do two job trips per week (and that is my only vehicle use for the most pa is doable some times of the year, but not most of the year.

    So:

    Buying an EV here means you pay a HUGE upfrong cost for a vehicle whose sell does not trust - see what I mention about them trying you to give up your warranty rights. Then you need some heavy rewiring at home. And even then, n matter you have a power plant capable of sustaining two homes in your horseyard, you will end up buying power from the grid half of the year becau the car just eats so much electricity - 62 kwh are like 11 bucks here.

    But scrap that.

    Rough estimate is I need 30 bucks in fossile fuels for my job trips. With an 000 total savings if you consider a car will last 10 years. The problem is E in the market segment of my combustion car are too far from the price mark s saving 13k or 14 k or 20k won't make it. And that is waaaay before we consid maintenance and insurance costs.

    * Asuming I am a regular person with no self-sufficient power production.
    If I had an infinite electric power supply I would save more than 15k in the car's lifetime and still fail to recoup my investment.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    I'd imagine a charging system would either have to have it's own battery bank or capacxitor system in order to push enough current into a car's battery
    bank?

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Arelor on Saturday, July 15, 2023 08:36:00
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Arelor to Nightfox on Fri Jul 14 2023 08:27 pm

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Nightfox to HusTler on Fri Jul 14 2023 09:59 am

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: HusTler to MRO on Fri Jul 14 2023 11:20 am

    I'm with ya on that. I'll never own or drive an electric car. Especi charging in my garage.

    Do you not have anything else that uses a rechargeable battery? What abo A gas-powered car also has a standard 12-volt car battery that is constan Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

    A lead/acid battery in a regular car is not really the same tech used for something like an electric car or a pack of solar batteries.

    The magnitudes involved are not even comparable. A cell phone does not have kwh of electric storage and a 200 amps nominal discharge capacity. A solar backup set of batteries might. An EV is well above those. Comparing an EV to cell phone is like comparing a miniature toy car with a plane carrier.

    Electrical failures is one of the top reasons for home fires. THere is a rea protection, overcurrent protection and earth fault protection: sometimes thi

    I think battery technology is pretty safe nowadays but only with proper care

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken


    An ideal charging system would have to be idiot proof, meaning they cannot be over ridden and prevent the car from being charged improperly. Charging protection has gone a long way even in 20 years.

    ---
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  • From Phigan@VERT/TACOPRON to Moondog on Saturday, July 15, 2023 06:37:41
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Moondog to Phigan on Sat Jul 15 2023 08:17 am

    That tends to make sense. The headlisghts, turn signals ands radios run off of the 12 volt system much like regular cars, while the driveline systems

    Exactamundo. What sucks is, the charging mechanism for the driveline battery is powered by that 12volt car battery... if that one's dead, you can't charge anything :).

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  • From Phigan@VERT/TACOPRON to Moondog on Saturday, July 15, 2023 06:40:47
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Moondog to Arelor on Sat Jul 15 2023 08:31 am

    I'd imagine a charging system would either have to have it's own battery bank or capacxitor system in order to push enough current into a car's

    It's the charger's job to negotiate with the car first to establish the correct voltage and current, then to draw the required amount from whatever it's plugged in to. Pretty sure mine, for example, won't draw more than 7A at 110v.

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Moondog on Saturday, July 15, 2023 09:58:37
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Moondog to Hustler on Sat Jul 15 2023 08:12 am

    had to be cooled down to room temperature before charging, oiotherwise if you charged
    it immediately after use, it would burn up? The Radio Shack near me sells e-bikes and scooters, and some of the Chinese builds appear to be decent quality, however the cheaper ones have sketchy batteries and charging electronics.

    cheap electronics looks like it's decent quality until you crack it open.
    ---
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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Tracker1 on Thursday, July 13, 2023 07:30:00
    Tracker1 wrote to Moondog <=-

    LOL. Electricity from fossil fuels, to batteries to drive cars is way
    less efficient than just running the cars directly from fossil fuels.

    I was thinking how much I liked those mixed-hybrid cars like the BMW i3
    and the older Chevy - they used an electric engine exclusively but had a
    small gas engine used to charge the battery. Made sense to be able to
    extend the range with gas but rely on electric.



    ... Emphasize differences
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANTIR to Moondog on Saturday, July 15, 2023 10:27:08
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Moondog to Hustler on Sat Jul 15 2023 08:12 am

    Regarding e-bikes catching fire, I wonder how much of that was from user err > vs manufacturing flaws? I recall awhile back there were a bunch of small fr > e that had specific battety charging instructions. The battery had to be
    cooled down to room temperature before charging, oiotherwise if you charged it immediately after use, it would burn up? The Radio Shack near me sells e-bikes and scooters, and some of the Chinese builds appear to be decent quality, however the cheaper ones have sketchy batteries and charging electronics.

    Many products need you to keep an eye on them because the charger is not smart enough to realize something is getting toasted.

    I think in this day an age, with consumers having achieved the IQ of a brick after years of trying, any consumer-grade product that does not try to protect itself against getting toasted this way is doomed to failure.

    --
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANTIR to Moondog on Saturday, July 15, 2023 10:40:47
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Moondog to Arelor on Sat Jul 15 2023 08:31 am

    I'd imagine a charging system would either have to have it's own battery ban > or capacxitor system in order to push enough current into a car's battery
    bank?

    I imagine a good electrician will put a dedicated charger on a dedicated circuit, with overcurrent and overvoltage protections for it.

    That said, for a regular guy who does not invest 20k bucks in solar, the power for charging the EV will have to come from the grid, and that means using the Individual Derivation that feeds the house. Those wires come from out of the house and if you want to consume more power than standard you are likely to need them replaced for thicker ones.

    If your house is big enough they will give you wires capable of carrying nearly10kw directly, even if you ask for less power. If your house is regular sized
    they are only required to give you around 25 amps, or 5750V, so if you need to charge an EV any fast and have regular home loads you may have to ask for your Derivation to be replaced, or just assume you cannot use the oven at the same time you charge your car.

    --
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANTIR to Moondog on Saturday, July 15, 2023 10:45:47
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Moondog to Arelor on Sat Jul 15 2023 08:36 am

    An ideal charging system would have to be idiot proof, meaning they cannot b > over ridden and prevent the car from being charged improperly. Charging
    protection has gone a long way even in 20 years.


    High ENd Lithium batteries nowadays come with an integrated Battary Management System, or BSM for short. A BSM will disconnect the battery from charging if the charger is providing the wrong tension or the battery starts working out ofits intended parameters.

    The BSM of the battery is typically connected to the charger via an ethernet ofCAN cable so the charger is aware of the battery state without needing any heuristics.

    --
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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Moondog on Saturday, July 15, 2023 23:07:32
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Moondog to Tracker1 on Thu Jul 13 2023 12:30:00

    Hydrogen and natural gas require pressurized tanks. Unlike gas or diesel ...
    conversion during a road trip. Range was limited to 200 miles per tank load, and most of the fi ll stations had limited operating hours. The stations that serviced city bus lines required gate access or an account with the cng provider.

    It's not really much different than any other less common fuel than crude based gasoline though. Fast electric chargers aren't much more convenient across most of the country. Also, most cars in the US at least aren't tiny little honda civics, the CNG suburban also gets over 40mpg with a larger tank than the civic. Beyond this, my point was that electrics aren't the only option, or imo even the best option for everyone.


    --
    Michael J. Ryan
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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to MRO on Saturday, July 15, 2023 23:30:40
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: MRO to Moondog on Thu Jul 13 2023 17:02:33

    i dont give a shit about reducing emmissions.

    Funny, I actually do care... not because I believe the world is going to end for humanity in N years, so much in that I simply don't like polution. I don't like the feeling of my eyes burning, or the taste of soot in my lungs or the back of my throat... I don't like the haze I see across a city, or even the Grand Canyon.

    My bigger issues are the urgency and alarmism. We, as a society can be pragmatic, but still make options available that are better overall for the environment. We're at a point now, that there is nowhere in the world where rainwater is considered safe to drink as-is. Things need to change... but doing so in ways that are appropriate. What use is a pollution reduction bill/treaty that exempts half the world, that is doing more pollution en-masse, if not per capita?

    Politics is stupid, and using religion disguised as science doesn't help either.


    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    +o roughneckbbs.com
    tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

    ---
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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Dumas Walker on Saturday, July 15, 2023 23:34:55
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Dumas Walker to TRACKER1 on Thu Jul 13 2023 15:46:00

    If we really wanted to reduce fossil fuel use, we'd eliminate air
    freight ...

    I would go as far as to say eliminate air travel in general, especially private jets.

    Air freight is much, much bigger than consumer travel, even including private jets. A lot of space even on passenger airlines is used for more urgent packages. Not that I'm an advocate for heavy usage of private jets.


    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    +o roughneckbbs.com
    tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

    ---
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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to HusTler on Saturday, July 15, 2023 23:39:08
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: HusTler to Moondog on Fri Jul 14 2023 11:08:54

    I too believe nuclear reactors are safe. But we still need to have a working plan should something happen. I'm not familiar with your state but getting people off Long Island would be a nightmare. There are no bridges. Only 2 ferries. There was talk about building a bridge from Long Island to Connecticut but that would cost a fortune because the Long Island sound is very deep. Even then the traffic jam it would cause with only having one bridge was just unacceptable. I think the bigger problem is how much our economy relies on fossil fuels. I just don't see fossil fuels going away anytime soon. Not in my lifetime anyway.

    On that last part, I definitely agree... we don't have the logistics in place to position other fuel options as readily as gasoline/deisel in a tank. I mean even from a technical position other options are limited, let alone the infrastructure in place. Fast charging electric, not even considering grid capacity/delivery is massive or slow.


    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    +o roughneckbbs.com
    tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

    ---
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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Nightfox on Saturday, July 15, 2023 23:42:40
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Nightfox to HusTler on Fri Jul 14 2023 09:59:10

    I'm with ya on that. I'll never own or drive an electric car.
    Especially a self driving one. I'd be afraid the battery would catch
    fire while charging in my garage.

    Do you not have anything else that uses a rechargeable battery? What about a cell phone? Laptop? Digital camera? And so on.. It's the same basic technology. How often do any of those batteries catch on fire while charging? Generally they put in mechanisms to prevent the battery from overcharging, and I think they tend ot be fairly safe.

    The shear size of a battery pack in a phone is massively different than what's in a passenger vehicle... I've had a phone battery explode and catch fire, it's kinda scarey, not enough to panic over, but chilling. A passenger vehicle battery pack is 2000x as large iirc. Though they tend to mostly only catch fire in accidents, but are generally left burning and it takes days for them to burn out. Now imagine that in a garage, and with a house that maybe has bedrooms above or adjacent to the garage, and your kids in those bedrooms.

    A gas-powered car also has a standard 12-volt car battery that is constantly being charged by the car's alternator. Have you ever had a problem with a 12-volt car battery catching on fire?

    Lead acid batteries are *very* different from lithium fuel cell in terms of failure modes and rates.


    --
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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to MRO on Saturday, July 15, 2023 23:43:28
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: MRO to HusTler on Fri Jul 14 2023 12:09:04

    yeah those ev battery fires were pretty scarey. and they'd have to dump tons and tons of water on them to suffocate them. i think tesla has detonators that are supposed to stop the fire by causing disconnections within the battery.

    Usually you can't put them out, and you just have to wait it out for a few days.


    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    +o roughneckbbs.com
    tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

    ---
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Saturday, July 15, 2023 21:40:00
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Tracker1 on Thu Jul 13 2023 07:30 am

    Tracker1 wrote to Moondog <=-

    LOL. Electricity from fossil fuels, to batteries to drive cars is way less efficient than just running the cars directly from fossil fuels.

    I was thinking how much I liked those mixed-hybrid cars like the BMW i3
    and the older Chevy - they used an electric engine exclusively but had a small gas engine used to charge the battery. Made sense to be able to
    extend the range with gas but rely on electric.



    ... Emphasize differences
    Back in the 1990's a co-founder of Compaq and his brother, a former NASA engin eer, were experimenting with electric cars. Instead of making EV's that run o nly on battery, a small gas turbine powered a generator, like a locomotive. T he turbine would run at a consistent RPM, so fuel consumption would be consistent.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Saturday, July 15, 2023 21:43:00
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Tracker1 on Thu Jul 13 2023 07:41 am

    Subject: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first rides
    @MSGID: <64B2BCEA.53895.dove.dove-gen@realitycheckbbs.org>
    @REPLY: <64AEBC5A.26980.dove-general@roughneckbbs.com>
    @TZ: c1e0
    Tracker1 wrote to Nightfox <=-

    We already have the technology... nuclear power. It's not dependent on the weather, or having visibility to the sun, so it can operate 24/7 without issue, and produces a small fraction of the waste that fossil fuel power plants generate by orders of magnitude. Safety is a major concern there, but at least in the US, we have a *LOT* of inland locations that are very geo stable that can be used for it. The legacy fossil fuel industry doesn't want nuclear though. And "green" sources won't provide enough around the clock coverage.

    Battery backed green sources are going to play more of a role. I work
    for a company that provides battery-backed solar storage with an
    intelligent system that sits behind the meter that takes historical
    usage, weather forecasts and tariff information to determine whether to
    run on the solar power, charge your batteries or sell the power back to
    the grid. I'm pretty sure TeslaWalls do the same thing, but these
    systems are enterprise-sized. In some cases, they're used by
    municipalities in front of the meter.

    The reliance on water cooling for nuclear seems to drive putting them
    near oceans - otherwise, why put them in a place where they're
    susceptible to earthquake-driven tsunamis and storm surges?





    ... Emphasize differences

    Lakes and rivers are better heatsinks than unstable ocean coastlines

    ---
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  • From fusion@VERT/CFBBS to Tracker1 on Sunday, July 16, 2023 04:35:00
    On 15 Jul 2023, Tracker1 said the following...

    Usually you can't put them out, and you just have to wait it out for a
    few days.

    i read about a warehouse of them that caught fire.. they were dumping cement on everything they could attempting to put it out. absolutely nasty stuff. apparently the company that owned the warehouse just stored them there in bulk. damaged ones, ones that didn't keep charge, etc. and rain got on them or something.. that was the catalyst.

    not a very great "retirement"/"recycle" method.. already happening.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Tracker1 on Sunday, July 16, 2023 06:30:25
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Tracker1 to MRO on Sat Jul 15 2023 11:30 pm

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: MRO to Moondog on Thu Jul 13 2023 17:02:33

    i dont give a shit about reducing emmissions.

    Funny, I actually do care... not because I believe the world is going to end


    well i dont care in some degrees where they want us to all ride bikes and use paper straws. we could develop the technology to throughly scrub our emmissions but we dont do it.

    instead they want to destroy our planet and kill people so we can have parts for batteries.

    the forrest fires in canada are doing much more damage than my car driving is. they still havent put them out.
    https://i.imgur.com/zYueT7l.png
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Tracker1 on Sunday, July 16, 2023 06:32:57
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Tracker1 to Nightfox on Sat Jul 15 2023 11:42 pm

    The shear size of a battery pack in a phone is massively different than what's in a passenger vehicle... I've had a phone battery explode and catch fire, it's kinda scarey, not enough to panic over, but chilling. A passenger vehicle battery pack is 2000x as large iirc. Though they tend to mostly only catch fire in accidents, but are generally left burning and it takes days for them to burn out. Now imagine that in a garage, and with a house that maybe has bedrooms above or adjacent to the garage, and your kids

    i've accidentially cut into a battery while removing a label to see the real spec info because it wasn't performing as well as it should.

    it was fucking scarey. and that's a tiny battery. now an EV battery is a fucking inferno that you can't put out.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Tracker1 on Sunday, July 16, 2023 06:37:12
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Tracker1 to MRO on Sat Jul 15 2023 11:43 pm

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: MRO to HusTler on Fri Jul 14 2023 12:09:04

    yeah those ev battery fires were pretty scarey. and they'd have to dump tons and tons of water on them to suffocate them. i think tesla has detonators that are supposed to stop the fire by causing disconnections within the battery.

    Usually you can't put them out, and you just have to wait it out for a few days.



    fire depts suffocate it with water. recycling facilities have more advanced methods but from what i have seen there's no universal agreement on how to put out these fires other than water water water.
    ---
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  • From HusTler@VERT/PHARCYDE to Moondog on Sunday, July 16, 2023 07:23:32
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Moondog to Hustler on Sat Jul 15 2023 08:12 am

    basic technology. How often do any of those batteries catch on fire while charg

    Regarding e-bikes catching fire, I wonder how much of that was from user err vs manufacturing flaws? I recall awhile back there were a bunch of small fro

    I am clouded by murphys law. If 1 out of 100,000 batteries when up in flames that one would be me. :-(

    |07 HusTler



    ... All great discoveries are made by mistake.

    ---
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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to TRACKER1 on Sunday, July 16, 2023 08:45:00
    I would go as far as to say eliminate air travel in general, especially private jets.

    Air freight is much, much bigger than consumer travel, even including private ts. A lot of space even on passenger airlines is used for more urgent
    ackage
    Not that I'm an advocate for heavy usage of private jets.

    I used to live in the city where the UPS "Worldhub" is, so I am aware of
    that. At certain times of the day, the only jets taking off or landing at
    the airport, one after the other, were UPS jets.

    The weather reporters, during the coldest parts of winter, would note the temperature spikes that would happen around the time all of their jets were taking off in the morning. It would go up a degree, or maybe two, and then back down again, all before sunrise.


    * SLMR 2.1a * How do you know if you run out of invisible ink?

    ---
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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Sunday, July 16, 2023 09:06:00
    I was thinking how much I liked those mixed-hybrid cars like the BMW i3
    and the older Chevy - they used an electric engine exclusively but had a small gas engine used to charge the battery. Made sense to be able to
    extend the range with gas but rely on electric.

    I don't see how things will work in future if the future for the EV is not
    some sort of hybrid. Some areas of our country are pretty spread out, so trying to get from place to place without some way to make your own
    electric would not be practical.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Golden Rule: He who has the gold makes the rules.

    ---
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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to NIGHTFOX on Sunday, July 16, 2023 09:12:00
    A gas-powered car also has a standard 12-volt car battery that is constantly being charged by the car's alternator. Have you ever had a problem with a 12-volt car battery catching on fire?

    I have not. The only people I know who have were mishandling them at the
    time, like shaking one thinking it would fix their car not starting.


    * SLMR 2.1a * A seminar on Time Travel will be held 2 weeks ago....

    ---
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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Tracker1 on Sunday, July 16, 2023 09:34:00
    Tracker1 wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

    Air freight is much, much bigger than consumer travel, even including private jets. A lot of space even on passenger airlines is used for
    more urgent packages. Not that I'm an advocate for heavy usage of
    private jets.

    I think it's interesting when global heads of state and leaders of
    industry get together to talk about combatting climate change - then
    someone adds up all of the carbon deficit caused by the private jets
    flying in/out of the conference.



    ... Eval Day 1005
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Tracker1 on Sunday, July 16, 2023 09:49:00
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Tracker1 to MRO on Sat Jul 15 2023 11:30 pm

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: MRO to Moondog on Thu Jul 13 2023 17:02:33

    i dont give a shit about reducing emmissions.

    Funny, I actually do care... not because I believe the world is going to end
    I don't like the haze I see across a city, or even the Grand Canyon.

    My bigger issues are the urgency and alarmism. We, as a society can be prag to drink as-is. Things need to change... but doing so in ways that are appr

    Politics is stupid, and using religion disguised as science doesn't help eit


    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    +o roughneckbbs.com
    tracker1@roughneckbbs.com


    Welcome to conservationism. It's not all about saving the planet or
    politics. It's about using the available resources smarter, and not being wasteful.

    ---
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  • From fusion@VERT/CFBBS to Dumas Walker on Sunday, July 16, 2023 20:26:00
    On 16 Jul 2023, Dumas Walker said the following...

    I don't see how things will work in future if the future for the EV is
    not some sort of hybrid. Some areas of our country are pretty spread
    out, so trying to get from place to place without some way to make your own electric would not be practical.

    they will probably preemtively ban running gas generators installed inside of electric cars. i bet there are already comapanies investigating a clean "factory look" install of generators inside the trunks of them. they'll probably ban them the instant one company has a decent product. they like to take things that should be inherently legal and regulate them.

    then will come the bans on running freestanding generators on the side of the highway, rest stops, other convenient places.. that'll be reserved for AAA,
    towing companies, perhaps others.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Dumas Walker on Monday, July 17, 2023 07:12:00
    Dumas Walker wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-

    I don't see how things will work in future if the future for the EV is
    not some sort of hybrid. Some areas of our country are pretty spread
    out, so trying to get from place to place without some way to make your own electric would not be practical.

    I think the issue isn't range, as electric range has grown significantly
    over the years. Charging time is the issue, and that's primarily an
    issue of physics.



    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to fusion on Monday, July 17, 2023 08:43:02
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: fusion to Dumas Walker on Sun Jul 16 2023 08:26 pm

    I don't see how things will work in future if the future for the EV
    is not some sort of hybrid. Some areas of our country are pretty
    spread out, so trying to get from place to place without some way to
    make your own electric would not be practical.

    they will probably preemtively ban running gas generators installed inside of electric cars. i bet there are already comapanies investigating a clean "factory look" install of generators inside the trunks of them. they'll probably ban them the instant one company has a decent product.

    There are already some cars on the market that are like that. The Chevrolet Volt is driven purely by electric motors, but it has a gas engine that powers a generator to recharge the batteries. The Chevrolet Volt has been discontinued though.

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Monday, July 17, 2023 10:28:33
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Dumas Walker on Mon Jul 17 2023 07:12 am

    I think the issue isn't range, as electric range has grown significantly over the years. Charging time is the issue, and that's primarily an
    issue of physics.

    I think availability of charging stations is an issue too. It seems they aren't really ubiquitous. I've only seen them available at some store parking lots here and there, and even then, there may be only 5 of them or something.

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to FUSION on Monday, July 17, 2023 15:07:00
    the instant one company has a decent product. they like to take things that
    h
    ld be inherently legal and regulate them.

    I cannot argue against that last statement for sure... regulate and
    restrict.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Don't be sexist! Chicks hate that.

    ---
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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Monday, July 17, 2023 15:29:00
    I think it's interesting when global heads of state and leaders of
    industry get together to talk about combatting climate change - then
    someone adds up all of the carbon deficit caused by the private jets
    flying in/out of the conference.

    Especially since we live in an age now where they can have a conference
    without anyone leaving their home/home office. If they were really
    concerned with the environment, they would consider that.

    That, of course, ruins the idea of going somewhere that a lot of folks
    cannot afford, hanging out with important people, and just generally
    showing off.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Boss spelled backwards is "double SOB".

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Monday, July 17, 2023 17:55:00
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Dumas Walker on Mon Jul 17 2023 07:12 am

    Dumas Walker wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-

    I don't see how things will work in future if the future for the EV is not some sort of hybrid. Some areas of our country are pretty spread out, so trying to get from place to place without some way to make your own electric would not be practical.

    I think the issue isn't range, as electric range has grown significantly over the years. Charging time is the issue, and that's primarily an
    issue of physics.



    Range is pretty good with cars. Trucks, not so much when pulling trailers

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Tuesday, July 18, 2023 07:09:00
    Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    I think availability of charging stations is an issue too. It seems
    they aren't really ubiquitous. I've only seen them available at some store parking lots here and there, and even then, there may be only 5
    of them or something.

    I heard people I normally like on a podcast talking about how gas
    stations will become charging stations. That's well and good, but the
    time to charge is the determining factor.



    ... Contact is inevitable, leading to information bleed.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Dumas Walker on Tuesday, July 18, 2023 07:10:00
    Dumas Walker wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-

    That, of course, ruins the idea of going somewhere that a lot of folks cannot afford, hanging out with important people, and just generally showing off.

    I suppose heads of state don't do it for the swag like I used to.



    ... No ceremonies are necessary.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Tuesday, July 18, 2023 16:50:00
    I don't see how things will work in future if the future for the EV is not some sort of hybrid. Some areas of our country are pretty spread out, so trying to get from place to place without some way to make your own electric would not be practical.

    I think the issue isn't range, as electric range has grown significantly
    over the years. Charging time is the issue, and that's primarily an
    issue of physics.

    With that range, the price has gone way up, and I am not sure that
    reliability has kept pace with the price.


    * SLMR 2.1a * And we had to chisel taglines into the walls of the cave

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Tuesday, July 18, 2023 16:52:00
    That, of course, ruins the idea of going somewhere that a lot of folks cannot afford, hanging out with important people, and just generally showing off.

    I suppose heads of state don't do it for the swag like I used to.

    I am sure there are spoils to be had, too, but I do doubt they do it for
    the same kind of swag that most of us non-politicians would be after...
    free pens, stress balls, and of course fidget-spinners! :D


    * SLMR 2.1a * It ain't over, but the fat lady is clearing her throat.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Wednesday, July 19, 2023 16:12:00
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Jul 18 2023 01:12 pm

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first rides
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Tue Jul 18 2023 07:24 am

    I'd heard Mazdas are good cars. I had been thinking about buying a
    newer car for a little while and recently bought a Mazda 3 myeslf.

    They're fun to drive - mechanics assumption is that they won't last as long as a Toyota or Honda, but are good for 100K or so.

    That being said, I have a 2011 CX-9 with 140K and it's doing fine - bought it at 105K and replaced fluids and brakes. No repairs yet. It's huge, but fast and fun to drive.

    100k actually sounds to me like a short lifespan for a car.. I often hear o

    Nightfox

    A co-worker drove his Mazda 323 until he got 300k miles on it, then sold it. For awhile we would see it on the road.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From hollowone@VERT/BEERS20 to fusion on Thursday, July 20, 2023 04:04:00
    we'll likely spend 200 years making our lives an inconvenient hell only
    to discover some sort of 95% efficient power source .. and nothing
    between now and then would have made any improvement to climate change, pollution, etc. compared to what that would do instantly.

    We were polluting like crazy in XIX's century peak time of industrialization. Even at the beginning of XX's century major cities like London suffered from pollution and it was sometimes hard to live there.

    And presumably there was no global warming.

    I think one thing is hard to add to the calculus when you consider that.

    100 years ago it was about 2B people on this planet. now we are close to 10B and growing. That's a lot more CO2 producers just by simple breathing... not even speaking about car ownership desire.

    -h1

    ... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Thursday, July 20, 2023 07:44:30
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Jul 19 2023 01:30 pm

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first rides
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Hustler on Wed Jul 19 2023 08:14 am

    One thing all Mazdas seem to have in common - they're all FUN TO DRIVE. I test-drove a Mazda 3, loved it. My AWD CX-9, while it's a troop hauler, is fast and feels like a much lighter car.

    I feel like my Mazda3 is fairly responsive with its power and turning and ov suspension from the factory - I've noticed I feel more of the road with this fun to drive.

    I've often thought a Mazda Miata would be fun to drive. Their current Miata

    Nightfox


    The early Miata models, like the 1991 model, were popular as project cars. They were rear axle at the time, and people would buy used models and swap
    the rear axle and drop in a 302 Ford V-8.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Thumper@VERT/THEWASTE to poindexter FORTRAN on Thursday, July 20, 2023 08:54:00
    poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Nightfox <=-

    Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    100k actually sounds to me like a short lifespan for a car.. I often
    hear of cars (especially the reliable brands) going farther than that,
    and I thought I'd heard Mazda was up there as one of the more reliable brands.

    Scotty Kilmer (a YouTube Channel guy, others here have seen him) made
    the comment when he drove a Mazda cx-5 that it was fun to drive and
    nicely built, but if you want a car guaranteed to go over 100K miles,
    get a Toyota or Honda. Take him with a grain of salt.

    I'd heard other people say the same - whether it's true or not who
    knows. As long as you change your fluids according to schedule, I think most modern cars will last over 100K.

    Every vehicle I've ever owned has made it to 300K and beyond. I always change fluids as needed. Right now my 2006 Scion Xa has 329K on it and still runs great. My 2002 Chevy Silverado Z71 has 289K on it and runs great. I had a 1996 Nissan make it to 400K. :)




    ... I only touch base with reality on an as-needed basis!
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ -=The Wastelands BBS=- -=Since 1990=-
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to HOLLOWONE on Friday, July 21, 2023 17:59:00
    100 years ago it was about 2B people on this planet. now we are close to 10B

    growing. That's a lot more CO2 producers just by simple breathing... not
    ven
    peaking about car ownership desire.

    There is also a lot more asphalt, which soaks up heat from the Sun and
    heats up the air (and many other things) around it.

    That is one reason why most big cities are usually warmer than the surrounding countryside.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Make headlines! Use a corduroy pillow.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to FUSION on Sunday, July 23, 2023 08:14:00
    kind of sad really.. all the A1/Mk1 stuff used off the shelf bulbs for
    everyt
    ng*. they were available at nearly every gas station in the country.
    ometimes
    ven the headlights (looking online the same entire bulb/lens assembly matches
    makes and hundreds of models)

    i'd say we went backwards as far as sustainability goes in that regard..

    + 1


    * SLMR 2.1a * It's as easy as 3.14159265358979323846...

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to NIGHTFOX on Tuesday, August 01, 2023 09:16:00
    I've never seen any gas stations that change taillight/headlight bulbs or anyt
    ng like that..?

    Back when they were called "service stations" they used to.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Have an adequate day.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dumas Walker on Wednesday, August 02, 2023 01:40:43
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Dumas Walker to NIGHTFOX on Tue Aug 01 2023 09:16 am

    I've never seen any gas stations that change taillight/headlight bulbs or anyt
    ng like that..?

    Back when they were called "service stations" they used to.

    back in the old days you could stick your hand up underneath and swap out a bulb in some cases. now you have to take apart shit.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From HusTler@VERT/BEERS20 to Nightfox on Wednesday, August 02, 2023 04:31:00
    Ideally, changing light bulbs in a headlight or taillight should be a fairly simple thing. Unfortunately it seems like some are a little complicated to get to (especially taillights).


    So what does the lady down the street do with no husband or BF? Bring the car to their dealer? Everyone has new cars so I'm guessing that's where they bring their cars.

    ... Fornication: people who don't have anybody to screw with.
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to HusTler on Wednesday, August 02, 2023 06:51:00
    HusTler wrote to Nightfox <=-

    So what does the lady down the street do with no husband or BF? Bring
    the car to their dealer? Everyone has new cars so I'm guessing that's where they bring their cars.

    I think once she gets past the stigma of gender stereotypes, she
    realizes her hands are smaller and easier to get into tight spaces to
    change the darn bulb. :)



    ... In total darkness, or in a very large room, very quietly
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to HusTler on Wednesday, August 02, 2023 20:17:55
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: HusTler to Nightfox on Wed Aug 02 2023 04:31 am

    Ideally, changing light bulbs in a headlight or taillight should be a fairly simple thing. Unfortunately it seems like some are a little complicated to get to (especially taillights).


    So what does the lady down the street do with no husband or BF? Bring the car to their dealer? Everyone has new cars so I'm guessing that's where they bring their cars.


    i think autozone does it for free.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Thursday, August 03, 2023 08:12:00
    Back when they were called "service stations" they used to.

    back in the old days you could stick your hand up underneath and swap out a bul
    in some cases. now you have to take apart shit.

    Yep. They want you to have to pay a dealership to be able to do any maintenance to your vehicle. That, and I sometimes think that maintenance
    is an afterthought.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Eschew Obfuscation!

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From candycane@VERT/CONCHAOS to Dumas Walker on Thursday, August 03, 2023 21:45:45
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Thu Aug 03 2023 08:12 am

    Back when they were called "service stations" they used to.

    back in the old days you could stick your hand up underneath and swap
    out a
    bul
    in some cases. now you have to take apart shit.

    Yep. They want you to have to pay a dealership to be able to do any maintenance to your vehicle. That, and I sometimes think that maintenance is an afterthought.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Eschew Obfuscation!

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

    Sounds like what apple does, and it's somewhat irritating.

    candycane

    ===
    user is generated from /dev/urandom

    ...Common sense is instinct. Enough of it is genius.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ -=[ ConstructiveChaos BBS | conchaos.synchro.net ]=-
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dumas Walker on Thursday, August 03, 2023 23:27:48
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Thu Aug 03 2023 08:12 am

    Back when they were called "service stations" they used to.

    back in the old days you could stick your hand up underneath and swap out a bul
    in some cases. now you have to take apart shit.

    Yep. They want you to have to pay a dealership to be able to do any maintenance to your vehicle. That, and I sometimes think that maintenance is an afterthought.


    even with my 2006 exploder i need to use an extention and socket to take out 3 bolts. then i have to yank the whole assy out.
    i'm hoping my newer car doesnt blow a headlight because i don't want to go down that road.

    i helped my friend change the bulbs on his chevy sedan and that was seriously a pain in the ass.

    what happened to giving the bulb a twist and pulling it out and replacing it. ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From candycane@VERT/CONCHAOS to MRO on Friday, August 04, 2023 02:03:17
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: MRO to Dumas Walker on Thu Aug 03 2023 11:27 pm

    what happened to giving the bulb a twist and pulling it out and replacing it. ---

    Companies wanting you to come in and spend money?

    candycane

    ===
    user is generated from /dev/urandom

    ...When GOD made women, he was only testing.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ -=[ ConstructiveChaos BBS | conchaos.synchro.net ]=-
  • From GenFx@VERT/DR to candycane on Friday, August 04, 2023 17:52:12
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: candycane to Dumas Walker on Thu Aug 03 2023 21:45:45

    Sounds like what apple does, and it's somewhat irritating.

    candycane

    Just last week I had to scrap my car due to a computer problem.
    The main PCB had no markings of course no schematics are available.
    I couldn't even buy a replacement computer from the dealer, They didn't even want to sell one to me. Even if they would sell one they didn't know which of the 3 similar boards to get and would likely be wrong.
    The dealer didn't even have the tools needed to program it anyway.
    I always perfer to fix my own things so the car was well maintained mechanically.
    Saying goodbye to the car was a hard pill to swallow.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ bbs.digitalrainbow.info
  • From Nopants@VERT/CITBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Thursday, August 03, 2023 23:59:00
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Thu Jul 20 2023 07:53 am

    Interesting.. I didn't realize that. I'd heard the Miata may not have had a whole lot of power, but it was meant to be fun to drive.

    It didn't. It was designed to emulate old roadsters, which were light,
    handled well, and you drove them pedal-to-the-metal and flung them
    around corners.

    My mom had a black Miata with red 'leather' interior. It had speakers in the headrest and subwoofer in the seat base. I got to drive it alot and it was super fun.

    http://www.miata93le.com/About_LE.htm
    -nop

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Crack in Time BBS - crackintimebbs.ddns.net:2323
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANTIR to GenFx on Friday, August 04, 2023 07:04:00
    GenFx wrote to candycane <=-

    Just last week I had to scrap my car due to a computer problem.
    The main PCB had no markings of course no schematics are
    available. I couldn't even buy a replacement computer from the
    dealer, They didn't even want to sell one to me. Even if they
    would sell one they didn't know which of the 3 similar boards to
    get and would likely be wrong. The dealer didn't even have the
    tools needed to program it anyway. I always perfer to fix my own
    things so the car was well maintained mechanically. Saying
    goodbye to the car was a hard pill to swallow.

    How old was the car? Must have been fairly old, because the dealership certainly has the parts and tools needed to program the computer of any
    recent model.



    ... Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Hustler@VERT/REALITY to GenFx on Friday, August 04, 2023 05:13:33
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: GenFx to candycane on Fri Aug 04 2023 05:52 pm

    Just last week I had to scrap my car due to a computer problem.
    The main PCB had no markings of course no schematics are available.
    I couldn't even buy a replacement computer from the dealer, They didn't even want to sell one to me. Even if they would sell one they didn't know which o the 3 similar boards to get and would likely be wrong.

    Geez..where do you guys live? In the sticks? Why so difficult to find a good mechanic that you can trust?


    |12HusTler
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Friday, August 04, 2023 09:22:10
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: MRO to Dumas Walker on Thu Aug 03 2023 11:27 pm

    even with my 2006 exploder i need to use an extention and socket to take out 3 bolts. then i have to yank the whole assy out. i'm hoping my newer car doesnt blow a headlight because i don't want to go down that road.

    i helped my friend change the bulbs on his chevy sedan and that was seriously a pain in the ass.

    what happened to giving the bulb a twist and pulling it out and replacing it.

    My last car (2009 VW Rabbit) had headlights where you could just twist them and pull them out to replace them. The taillight bulbs were a different story. There was a plastic liner piece in the back of the trunk going across the bottom and up the sides, and I had to detach it and pull it back on each side so that I could then get to the rear light assemblies, use a socket to unscrew a couple of nuts attaching each one, and also a flathead screwdriver which helped detach the electrical plug, before I could take the assembly apart and replace the bulbs. After doing that several times, I just left the trunk liner detached because those rear bulbs ended up burning out fairly often.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to candycane on Friday, August 04, 2023 09:23:49
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: candycane to MRO on Fri Aug 04 2023 02:03 am

    what happened to giving the bulb a twist and pulling it out and replacing
    it.

    Companies wanting you to come in and spend money?

    It would be nice if companies made things easy to work on and fix. I'd be inclined to be more of a repeat customer if they did that, rather than them them trying to force me to come in and spend money because they made something more difficult.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Dredster@VERT/CAVERNS to candycane on Friday, August 04, 2023 13:39:44
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: candycane to MRO on Fri Aug 04 2023 02:03 am

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: MRO to Dumas Walker on Thu Aug 03 2023 11:27 pm

    what happened to giving the bulb a twist and pulling it out and replacing it. ---

    Companies wanting you to come in and spend money?

    candycane

    ===
    user is generated from /dev/urandom

    ...When GOD made women, he was only testing.

    Yea, you can't fix a lot of things these days without a computer connected to it to get a diagnostic.. Bulbs, used to either be a push, twist, pull to get them out, then some are just pull out but these days, instead of replacing a bulb, you have to replace the entire light assembly as things are just glued in.. sometimes you need special tools to even get something apart. i miss the days when a screwdriver and a 9/16 socket could just about take anything off of a car..

    Dred

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Caverns BBS - No matter where you go, there you are...
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to GenFx on Friday, August 04, 2023 16:35:11
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: GenFx to candycane on Fri Aug 04 2023 05:52 pm

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first

    Just last week I had to scrap my car due to a computer problem.
    The main PCB had no markings of course no schematics are available.
    I couldn't even buy a replacement computer from the dealer, They didn't even want to sell one to me. Even if they would sell one they didn't know which of the 3 similar boards to get and would likely be wrong.
    The dealer didn't even have the tools needed to program it anyway.
    I always perfer to fix my own things so the car was well maintained mechanically.
    Saying goodbye to the car was a hard pill to swallow.

    sounds like you went to the wrong dealer. go get a 2nd opinion or go to another mechanic.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Hustler on Friday, August 04, 2023 17:16:47
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Hustler to GenFx on Fri Aug 04 2023 05:13 am


    Geez..where do you guys live? In the sticks? Why so difficult to find a good mechanic that you can trust?


    it's hard everywhere. i had a mechanic that was good but then they fucked me
    a few times real good in the long run.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Friday, August 04, 2023 17:20:59
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Nightfox to candycane on Fri Aug 04 2023 09:23 am


    It would be nice if companies made things easy to work on and fix. I'd be inclined to be more of a repeat customer if they did that, rather than them them trying to force me to come in and spend money because they made something more difficult.

    they just use plastic junk. maybe it's cheaper sometimes.
    i need to rip apart my dash to fix my flow diverter.
    plastic gears broke.

    engineers are really idiots and don't think about what will happen down the line. i've seen car batteries where you had to jack up the car and take off the tire to get to the battery. i've seen batteries in a compartment in the trunk and they have wires running under the hood with posts for jumping.

    i'd hate to change the serpentine belt on my sedan, but on my suv it's pretty easy.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From HusTler@VERT/PHARCYDE to MRO on Friday, August 04, 2023 19:21:20
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Fri Aug 04 2023 05:20 pm

    engineers are really idiots and don't think about what will happen down the line. i've seen car batteries where you had to jack up the car and take off tire to get to the battery. i've seen batteries in a compartment in the trun and they have wires running under the hood with posts for jumping.

    Oh man! I remember that! What kind of car was that? I was running a flatbed on the weekends and a service call for that thing (AAA). The guy needed a jump. I was like WTF?? I told the guy best I can do is tow you back to the shop. Can't remember what kind of vehicle it was.

    |07 HusTler



    ... Logic and practical information do not seem to apply here.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)
  • From candycane@VERT/CONCHAOS to Nightfox on Friday, August 04, 2023 21:05:29
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Nightfox to candycane on Fri Aug 04 2023 09:23 am

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: candycane to MRO on Fri Aug 04 2023 02:03 am

    what happened to giving the bulb a twist and pulling it out and
    replacing it.

    Companies wanting you to come in and spend money?

    It would be nice if companies made things easy to work on and fix. I'd be inclined to be more of a repeat customer if they did that, rather than them them trying to force me to come in and spend money because they made something more difficult.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

    They just want short-term gain..

    candycane

    ===
    user is generated from /dev/urandom

    ...The Russians are going forward, more in hope than optimism.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ -=[ ConstructiveChaos BBS | conchaos.synchro.net ]=-
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to HusTler on Friday, August 04, 2023 20:05:10
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: HusTler to MRO on Fri Aug 04 2023 07:21 pm

    engineers are really idiots and don't think about what will happen down the line. i've seen car batteries where you had to jack up the car and take off tire to get to the battery. i've seen batteries in a compartment in the trun and they have wires running under the hood with posts for jumping.

    Oh man! I remember that! What kind of car was that? I was running a

    flatbed
    on the weekends and a service call for that thing (AAA). The guy needed a jump. I was like WTF?? I told the guy best I can do is tow you back to the shop. Can't remember what kind of vehicle it was.

    one was a chevy cobalt (which was an embarassment that they yanked. they did the same shit with other sedans). remove tire to get to battery is dodge avenger. (she had a major head on and airbag did not deploy, too)

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Hustler@VERT/REALITY to MRO on Saturday, August 05, 2023 05:25:19
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: MRO to HusTler on Fri Aug 04 2023 08:05 pm

    car and take off tire to get to the battery. i've seen batteries in a

    Oh man! I remember that! What kind of car was that? I was running a

    one was a chevy cobalt (which was an embarassment that they yanked. they did

    Thanks for that. I thought is was a BMW or Volvo but I'm not sure. Some have terminal posts in the trunk that you can use to jump start it. I never understood what these engineers were trying to accomplish.


    |12HusTler
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From GenFx@VERT/DR to Gamgee on Sunday, August 06, 2023 00:33:51
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Gamgee to GenFx on Fri Aug 04 2023 07:04:00

    How old was the car? Must have been fairly old, because the dealership certainly has the parts and tools needed to program the computer of any recent model.

    12 years old, very low klms
    nope they flat out refused.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ bbs.digitalrainbow.info
  • From GenFx@VERT/DR to Hustler on Sunday, August 06, 2023 00:40:46
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Hustler to GenFx on Fri Aug 04 2023 05:13:33

    Geez..where do you guys live? In the sticks? Why so difficult to find a good mechanic that you can trust?

    yeah its the sticks :)
    I tried all 4 auto electricans and none had a programmer.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ bbs.digitalrainbow.info
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Hustler on Saturday, August 05, 2023 13:09:38
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Hustler to MRO on Sat Aug 05 2023 05:25 am


    Thanks for that. I thought is was a BMW or Volvo but I'm not sure. Some have terminal posts in the trunk that you can use to jump start it. I never understood what these engineers were trying to accomplish.


    no, battery in the trunk. posts under the hood.
    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Saturday, August 05, 2023 12:37:30
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Fri Aug 04 2023 05:20 pm

    engineers are really idiots and don't think about what will happen down the line. i've seen car batteries where you had to jack up the car and take off the tire to get to the battery. i've seen batteries in a compartment in the trunk and they have wires running under the hood with posts for jumping.

    I've seen some cars like that, with the battery hidden in a trunk compartment. I've heard it's "to make more room in the engine compartment", but I'm not sure if it's always engineers being idiots - I imagine the company might also want things to be difficult to work on so that more customers might decide to take their car to the dealership to be worked on.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Saturday, August 05, 2023 16:17:34
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Sat Aug 05 2023 12:37 pm

    I've seen some cars like that, with the battery hidden in a trunk compartment. I've heard it's "to make more room in the engine compartment", but I'm not sure if it's always engineers being idiots - I imagine the company might also want things to be difficult to work on so that more customers might decide to take their car to the dealership to be worked on.


    they're idiots. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4piizWfcFYU&ab_channel=OzMechanics
    ---
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  • From candycane@VERT/CONCHAOS to MRO on Saturday, August 05, 2023 20:35:45
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Aug 05 2023 04:17 pm

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Sat Aug 05 2023 12:37 pm

    I've seen some cars like that, with the battery hidden in a trunk
    compartment. I've heard it's "to make more room in the engine
    compartment", but I'm not sure if it's always engineers being idiots -
    I imagine the company might also want things to be difficult to work
    on so that more customers might decide to take their car to the
    dealership to be worked on.


    they're idiots. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4piizWfcFYU&ab_channel=OzMechanics
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

    "Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence" is a quote i think applies here.

    candycane

    ===
    user is generated from /dev/urandom

    ...One good turn gets most of the blanket.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ -=[ ConstructiveChaos BBS | conchaos.synchro.net ]=-
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANTIR to Hustler on Saturday, August 05, 2023 19:30:00
    Hustler wrote to MRO <=-

    car and take off tire to get to the battery. i've seen batteries in a

    Oh man! I remember that! What kind of car was that? I was running a

    one was a chevy cobalt (which was an embarassment that they yanked. they did

    Thanks for that. I thought is was a BMW or Volvo but I'm not
    sure. Some have terminal posts in the trunk that you can use to
    jump start it. I never understood what these engineers were
    trying to accomplish.

    It's usually done for weight distribution / balancing. Batteries are
    heavy, and on a performance car it can make a difference.



    ... If it has tits or tires sooner or later it's going to give you trouble!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Dredster@VERT/CAVERNS to MRO on Sunday, August 06, 2023 00:07:40
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Aug 05 2023 04:17 pm

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Sat Aug 05 2023 12:37 pm

    I've seen some cars like that, with the battery hidden in a trunk compartment. I've heard it's "to make more room in the engine compartment", but I'm not sure if it's always
    engineers
    being idiots - I imagine the company might also want things to be difficult to work on so that more customers might decide to take their car to the dealership to be worked on.


    they're idiots. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4piizWfcFYU&ab_channel=OzMechanics

    My 2014 Camaro has the battery in the trunk. You have to take out the spare tire to get to it.. Pain in the a$$ if you have a lot of stuff in the trunk like I do..

    Dred

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Caverns BBS - No matter where you go, there you are...
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Hustler on Friday, August 04, 2023 07:13:00
    Hustler wrote to GenFx <=-

    Geez..where do you guys live? In the sticks? Why so difficult to find a good mechanic that you can trust?

    Let's talk about plumbers. None of them work for time and materials
    anymore, instead the past two have a book of recommended costs for
    plumbing repairs. They stick to that because *everyone* is using the
    same book.

    That's called price fixing.

    $485 to install a toilet. $3250 to replace a stop/drain valve.




    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dredster on Sunday, August 06, 2023 12:20:26
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Dredster to MRO on Sun Aug 06 2023 12:07 am

    My 2014 Camaro has the battery in the trunk. You have to take out the spare tire to get to it.. Pain in the a$$ if you have a lot of stuff in the trunk like I do..

    Meh, Chevy.. They seem to be fairly good cars, but I know someone who had a Chevy and it was difficult to even replace the front headlight bulbs - you couldn't just twist them out.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From The Lizard Master@VERT/NITEEYES to Nightfox on Monday, August 07, 2023 08:55:30
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Sat Aug 05 2023 12:37 pm

    I've seen some cars like that, with the battery hidden in a trunk compartment. I've heard it's "to make more room in the engine compartment", but I'm not sure if it's always engineers being idiots - I imagine the company might also want things to be difficult to work on so that more customers might decide to take their car to the dealership to be worked on.

    I had a 78 Vette at one point, it was in the back somewhere because of that.

    ---TLM

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Nite Eyes BBS - To make people happy about my tagline everywhere...
  • From Thumper@VERT/THEWASTE to MRO on Monday, August 07, 2023 09:27:00
    MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Nightfox to candycane on Fri Aug 04 2023 09:23 am



    engineers are really idiots and don't think about what will happen down the line. i've seen car batteries where you had to jack up the car and take off the tire to get to the battery. i've seen batteries in a compartment in the trunk and they have wires running under the hood
    with posts for jumping.

    My Camaro is that way. Pull the carpet, pull the cover, pull the tools and then the spare tire to even get to the cover on the battery. It's a pain but there definately is no room under the hood....


    ... I only touch base with reality on an as-needed basis!
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ -=The Wastelands BBS=- -=Since 1990=-
  • From Thumper@VERT/THEWASTE to Nightfox on Monday, August 07, 2023 09:35:00
    Nightfox wrote to Dredster <=-

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Dredster to MRO on Sun Aug 06 2023 12:07 am

    My 2014 Camaro has the battery in the trunk. You have to take out the spare tire to get to it.. Pain in the a$$ if you have a lot of stuff in the trunk like I do..

    Meh, Chevy.. They seem to be fairly good cars, but I know someone who
    had a Chevy and it was difficult to even replace the front headlight
    bulbs - you couldn't just twist them out.

    My 2010 Camaro headlights have the High-Intensity Discharge system and you have to use special, and expensive, bulbs. It is recommended that all power be drained off the system and disconnect the batery before changing bulbs. I guess it can pack quite a jolt if not. Just had to do it a few months ago.





    ... Extinction is the ultimate fate of all species.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ -=The Wastelands BBS=- -=Since 1990=-
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to The Lizard Master on Monday, August 07, 2023 17:38:02
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: The Lizard Master to Nightfox on Mon Aug 07 2023 08:55 am

    I've seen some cars like that, with the battery hidden in a trunk
    compartment. I've heard it's "to make more room in the engine

    I had a 78 Vette at one point, it was in the back somewhere because of that.

    I spent a lot of time working on my friend's '77 Vette. Was the 78 the first year of the bubble-back Vettes?

    Putting the battery in the back helps with weight distribution on front-engine cars. Don't know how much it would help with vettes, as they're monsters.

    My Vette story - my friend used to always want to race people off of stop lights, and he'd always get beat. He'd try replacing the spark plug wires, get a high-flow air filter, you name it. He went to get the spark plugs replaced (again) at a new shop and they called him over. When they pulled the plugs, they found 6 of the NGKs he'd bought, and 2 of the OEM AC Delco plugs that the previous shop never replaced because they were in the back and too hard to get to!

    ...Have you ever asked a question you weren't supposed to ask?
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Thumper on Monday, August 07, 2023 17:38:46
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Thumper to MRO on Mon Aug 07 2023 09:27 am

    My Camaro is that way. Pull the carpet, pull the cover, pull the tools and then the spare tire to even get to the cover on the battery. It's a pain but there definately is no room under the hood....

    My dad's Subaru had the battery AND the spare tire under the hood!
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Thumper on Monday, August 07, 2023 17:39:55
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Thumper to Nightfox on Mon Aug 07 2023 09:35 am

    My 2010 Camaro headlights have the High-Intensity Discharge system and you have to use special, and expensive, bulbs. It is recommended that all power be drained off the system and disconnect the batery before changing bulbs. I guess it can pack quite a jolt if not. Just had to do it a few months ago.

    I read about HID bulbs, but I didn't know that about needing to drain the system. Sounds like working on an old CRT!

    I have standard bulbs in my car, everyone else's super-bright lights are all I need. :)
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From The Lizard Master@VERT/NITEEYES to poindexter FORTRAN on Tuesday, August 08, 2023 08:09:11
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to The Lizard Master on Mon Aug 07 2023 05:38 pm

    I had a 78 Vette at one point, it was in the back somewhere because of that.

    I spent a lot of time working on my friend's '77 Vette. Was the 78 the first year of the bubble-back Vettes?

    Putting the battery in the back helps with weight distribution on front-engine cars. Don't know how much it would help with vettes, as they're monsters.

    My Vette story - my friend used to always want to race people off of stop lights, and he'd always get beat. He'd try replacing the spark plug wires, get a high-flow air filter, you name it. He went to get the spark plugs replaced (again) at a new shop and they called him over. When they pulled the plugs, they found 6 of the NGKs he'd bought, and 2 of the OEM AC Delco plugs that the previous shop never replaced because they were in the back and too hard to get to!

    Wow that's infuriating! Yes, it was the first bubble back silver anniversary edition.

    It looked like this: https://barnfinds.com/10k-original-miles-1978-chevrolet-corvette-silver-anniversary-with-no-reserve/

    Such an awesome looking car. When I sold it, I used ebay. Some guy who worked the rigs in norway bought it. I spoke with him a few times and it was always hard to hear and he had to send money via wire. I was certain the whole thing was a scam, but apparently they don't have easy acces to a lot of these cars and the transaction went smooth. A truck pulled up and took it to an international shipping company and that was that. I miss it though!

    ---TLM

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Nite Eyes BBS - To make people happy about my tagline everywhere...
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Thumper on Tuesday, August 08, 2023 23:27:29
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Thumper to Nightfox on Mon Aug 07 2023 09:35 am


    My 2010 Camaro headlights have the High-Intensity Discharge system and you have to use special, and expensive, bulbs. It is recommended that all power be drained off the system and disconnect the batery before changing bulbs. I guess it can pack quite a jolt if not. Just had to do it a few months ago.

    i'm surprised they use those xeon bulbs instead of led. internet sez they started using led headlights in 2004. i switched my suv's dim headlights to led and i love 'em.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Hustler on Wednesday, August 09, 2023 06:58:00
    Hustler wrote to GenFx <=-

    That's strange. How old is the car? Did you try the many online Auto parts stores. I've even seen used part sold online. Oh well.. I guess
    it don't matter if the car went to the auto graveyard. Sorry for your loss.

    Might have been worth going to an auto picker. They're dissapearing
    quickly as real estate in California real estate gets more expensive,
    but when I had an old VW they were invaluable. A replacement seat, dash
    insert, gas cap, and door card were all dirt cheap.



    ... From nothing to more than nothing
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From Thumper@VERT/THEWASTE to MRO on Wednesday, August 09, 2023 09:20:00
    MRO wrote to Thumper <=-

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Thumper to Nightfox on Mon Aug 07 2023 09:35 am


    My 2010 Camaro headlights have the High-Intensity Discharge system and you have to use special, and expensive, bulbs. It is recommended that all power be drained off the system and disconnect the batery before changing bulbs. I guess it can pack quite a jolt if not. Just had to do it a few months ago.

    i'm surprised they use those xeon bulbs instead of led. internet sez
    they started using led headlights in 2004. i switched my suv's dim headlights to led and i love 'em. ---

    When I looked for replacement bulbs, there appear to have been different types used for that model. Halogen, 2 styles and then the HID. I wanted to change to LED but I guess not with the HID setup. I did change tail lights to LED though.


    ... Some men are discovered; others are found out.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ -=The Wastelands BBS=- -=Since 1990=-
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Thumper on Wednesday, August 09, 2023 12:56:14
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Thumper to MRO on Wed Aug 09 2023 09:20 am


    When I looked for replacement bulbs, there appear to have been different types used for that model. Halogen, 2 styles and then the HID. I wanted to change to LED but I guess not with the HID setup. I did change tail lights to LED though.


    you just use a conversion kit.
    they have hid to led kits.

    i'm supposed to use a canbus for my led lights, but the harness they gave me created a fuck ton of heat and killed my battery. i just go without it and my console warns me about the headlights because they don't draw enough power.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Thumper@VERT/THEWASTE to MRO on Wednesday, August 09, 2023 15:56:28
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Thumper to MRO on Wed Aug 09 2023 09:20 am


    When I looked for replacement bulbs, there appear to have been different types used for that model. Halogen, 2 styles and then the HID. I wanted to change to LED but I guess not with the HID setup. I did change tail lights to LED though.


    you just use a conversion kit.
    they have hid to led kits.

    i'm supposed to use a canbus for my led lights, but the harness they gave me created a fuck ton of heat and killed my battery. i just go without it and my console warns me about the headlights because they don't draw enough power.

    I'll have to look into that! :) Of course after the cost of the HID bulbs, I might wait awhile and get my monies worth out of them! :)



    -=Thumper=-
    Sysop

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ -=The Wastelands BBS=- -=Since 1990=-
  • From GenFx@VERT/DR to Hustler on Thursday, August 10, 2023 18:38:24
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Hustler to GenFx on Wed Aug 09 2023 06:51:26

    That's strange. How old is the car? Did you try the many online Auto parts stores. I've even seen used part sold online. Oh well.. I guess it don't matter if the car went to the auto graveyard. Sorry for your loss.

    13 years, Yeah I tried everything.
    Thanks thats very kind ^^

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ bbs.digitalrainbow.info
  • From Dredster@VERT/CAVERNS to poindexter FORTRAN on Friday, August 11, 2023 10:05:32
    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Thumper on Mon Aug 07 2023 05:38 pm

    Re: Re: Zoox Robotaxi, first
    By: Thumper to MRO on Mon Aug 07 2023 09:27 am

    My Camaro is that way. Pull the carpet, pull the cover, pull the tools and then the spare tire to even get to the cover on the battery. It's a pain but there definately is no
    room
    under the hood....

    My dad's Subaru had the battery AND the spare tire under the hood!

    So, where was the engine? :)

    Dred

    ---
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